Ban Ronald McDonald?

[Coito ergo sum]

it's still shit work.
it's a mcjob, in the full meaning given the expression by Douglas Coupland, and for that matter, what I read from Sandinista's post, it's not that the work is demeaning, it's the wages that are shameful, and mcd's anti union tactics that prevent workers from defending themselves from the boss's slave driver attitude.

How much would be reasonable?

Slave driver attitude? Are you mad? They work 40 hours a week in an airconditioned restaurant, and if they work any time over that they're compensated at time-and-a-half. What possible "slave driving" is occurring there? Do you have any examples? Do you mean - managers requiring their employees to show up regularly and work during work time?

What is "McJob" about it? I mean - they employ fry cooks, cashiers, and other restaurant workers. What is so bad about that? And, how much do you think someone assembling Big Macs ought to get paid? And, is it a job that a 30 or 40-something year old grown, healthy, adult ought to be doing? Or, ought that person have found something better to do, that's worth a bit more money?

[maiforpeace]

What McDonalds offers in terms of salaries for assistant managers is competitive with other food businesses, but it's still shit for work comparatively speaking. You are expected to work a minimum of 55 hours a week as an assistant manager, usually 60+, in hot, greasy conditions, with high staff turnover, on your feet 95% of the time, far from ideal conditions as an assistant manager of a foodservice establishment.

As for the great benefits...you still have to pay for them, and you need to work a minimum of 32 hours a week to qualify. The majority of McDonald's jobs are part time positions and don't qualify...besides, what student wants to work full-time?

Just wondering CES, have you ever worked for a fast food restaurant before?

EDIT: As for honorable...isn't any job that you actually have to work at honorable? What's a dishonorable job? Prostituting yourself to feed your kids, or working in the marketing department of McDonalds finding new ways to market junk food to kids?

[Coito ergo sum]

What McDonalds offers in terms of salaries for assistant managers is competitive with other food businesses, but it's still shit for work comparatively speaking. You are expected to work a minimum of 55 hours a week as an assistant manager, usually 60+, in hot, greasy conditions, with high staff turnover, on your feet 95% of the time, far from ideal conditions as an assistant manager of a foodservice establishment.

Being on one's feet is not that big a deal, not for a reasonably healthy person. When I worked as a roofer I was on my feet, on a roof, for 10 hours a day, and part of my day involved lugging 60 pound bundles of shingles up and down a ladder.

I disagree that it's "usually" 60+ - usually being at least the norm - regularly - customarily. Sure, sometimes they do, but usually not. I've known many people who have worked for McDonalds.

As for the great benefits...you still have to pay for them, and you need to work a minimum of 32 hours a week to qualify.

You pay for PART of them, and almost no business anywhere grants benefits for people working less than 32 hours a week. Sometimes it's even higher. So, neither of these things is an indictment of McDonalds per se.

The majority of McDonald's jobs are part time positions and don't qualify...besides, what student wants to work full-time?

Students generally don't need the benefits, because they are normally covered through a parents' plan, or can get insurance through their school. Moreover, many students want to work full time and overtime - in the summers and on breaks - and work part time during school.

But, for those who don't want to work full time - the question then becomes - how much is actually fair for a student working at McDonalds to stand at the cash register part time and hand people food and take their money? $20 an hour?

Just wondering CES, have you ever worked for a fast food restaurant before?

Hell yeah I did. I went over some of the jobs I've done above. In college I worked for a fast food place on campus and worked the grill and the cash register, and opened, closed, and cleaned the grease traps and the whole ball of wax. I've worked WORSE jobs than working at a fast food restaurant. Far worse than working the grill or cash register at a fast food restaurant was working as a "bus boy" at a regular restaurant - I did every nasty restaurant job there is, including handling the garbage, cleaning the bathrooms, and busting my balls lugging all the plates back and forth, washing them, filling the dishwashers, etc.

Like I said, I was a non-union roofing laborer and I "was on my feet" for 10 hours a day, sometimes more, working my ass off - in the hot/boiling sun in the summertime. I worked a job in high school in which I washed semi trucks from front to back and inside and out as well as horse trailers. In college I did painting and trim carpentry in the summer - 16 hour days to rack up the overtime to get money saved for school.

You?

[Coito ergo sum]

EDIT: As for honorable...isn't any job that you actually have to work at honorable? What's a dishonorable job? Prostituting yourself to feed your kids, or working in the marketing department of McDonalds finding new ways to market junk food to kids?

I'm not the one who suggested anything was a "shit" job. Why are you asking me? Ask sandinista.

I was taught to respect people who work at difficult and demanding jobs, and less than pleasant jobs.

[Warren Dew]

What McDonalds offers in terms of salaries for assistant managers is competitive with other food businesses, but it's still shit for work comparatively speaking. You are expected to work a minimum of 55 hours a week as an assistant manager, usually 60+, in hot, greasy conditions, with high staff turnover, on your feet 95% of the time, far from ideal conditions as an assistant manager of a foodservice establishment.

As for the great benefits...you still have to pay for them, and you need to work a minimum of 32 hours a week to qualify. The majority of McDonald's jobs are part time positions and don't qualify...besides, what student wants to work full-time?

Just wondering CES, have you ever worked for a fast food restaurant before?

I see Coito answered yes. So have I, in high school, starting at less than minimum wage (which was authorized for certain part time minors). But you know what? For a high schooler with zero experience or work skills, the money was fine.

Sure I had to work hard, and I did stand up all day, but to be honest, anyone who has a problem with working hard is lazy. And frankly, I'm not so sure I didn't prefer standing up all day to sitting down all day.

Now I think it's only fair that you answer the same question for us, Mai - have you ever worked at a fast food restaurant?

[maiforpeace]

What McDonalds offers in terms of salaries for assistant managers is competitive with other food businesses, but it's still shit for work comparatively speaking. You are expected to work a minimum of 55 hours a week as an assistant manager, usually 60+, in hot, greasy conditions, with high staff turnover, on your feet 95% of the time, far from ideal conditions as an assistant manager of a foodservice establishment.

As for the great benefits...you still have to pay for them, and you need to work a minimum of 32 hours a week to qualify. The majority of McDonald's jobs are part time positions and don't qualify...besides, what student wants to work full-time?

Just wondering CES, have you ever worked for a fast food restaurant before?

I see Coito answered yes. So have I, in high school, starting at less than minimum wage (which was authorized for certain part time minors). But you know what? For a high schooler with zero experience or work skills, the money was fine.

Sure I had to work hard, and I did stand up all day, but to be honest, anyone who has a problem with working hard is lazy. And frankly, I'm not so sure I didn't prefer standing up all day to sitting down all day.

Now I think it's only fair that you answer the same question for us, Mai - have you ever worked at a fast food restaurant?

I started in the food business at age 12 - rolling spring rolls for 10 cents each. I've worked every job there is in foodservice and then some, cleaning grease traps, working 10 hours a day behind a hot grill, cleaning the puke up after drunken customers and waiting on the most insufferable, pretentious customers one could imagine. You name the job, I've done it, including all levels of management. I owned and operated a catering business, and I even spent a summer working in an organic garden as a field worker. Now that is back breaking work.

I was in foodservice for over 30 years and part of that was working in two fast food restaurants - Happy Burrito and Round Table Pizza.

EDIT:

As for these wonderful 50,000 jobs McDonald's is offering and this well paid, 30K a year assistant manager you are referring to CES? Those wages barely meet their basic needs today...

Many Low-Wage Jobs Seen as Failing to Meet Basic Needs

A study on economic stability says many jobs today are unlikely to cover fundamentals like housing, utilities and food.
By MOTOKO RICH
Published: March 31, 2011 - New York Times

According to the report, a single worker needs an income of $30,012 a year — or just above $14 an hour — to cover basic expenses and save for retirement and emergencies. That is close to three times the 2010 national poverty level of $10,830 for a single person, and nearly twice the federal minimum wage of $7.25 an hour.

[Warren Dew]

I started in the food business at age 12 - rolling spring rolls for 10 cents each.

Seriously? Seems like that could have come to several times minimum wage, back then. Though I guess 12 year olds might be a bit slower than adults at it.

[Gonzo]

700 posts - did you guys need another opinion about Ronald McDonald?

[devogue]

Nobody forces anyone to work at McDonalds. Employees are there by choice. Simple.

[Hermit]

Nobody forces anyone to work at McDonalds. Employees are there by choice. Simple.

Thank you, Seth.

[devogue]

Nobody forces anyone to work at McDonalds. Employees are there by choice. Simple.

Thank you, Seth.

McDonald's offers terms in return for labour. It is the right of anyone to accept or reject those terms. If someone decides to accept them, then they must be more attractive than any (or no) alternative.

[Coito ergo sum]

As for these wonderful 50,000 jobs McDonald's is offering and this well paid, 30K a year assistant manager you are referring to CES? Those wages barely meet their basic needs today...

Here's where we run into a problem. Did I call the jobs "wonderful?" No, of course I did not. For some reason, you just assume that.

Not all jobs are wonderful. If I thought such jobs were "wonderful" I would never have gone for three straight years on an average of 4-5 hours sleep during the week to get an education that would get a better job.

A study on economic stability says many jobs today are unlikely to cover fundamentals like housing, utilities and food.

Of course. Whoever said they wouldn't. If I run a store and hire the neighbor's kid to break up boxes (a job I did - clean stuff - break up boxes, help put some stock on the shelves, handle the garbage) ought there be a legal requirement that I pay enough to support a family of four?

And, of course, nobody has answered the question I posed a couple of times. I've been noticing this trend - people ask me many questions - I give the courtesy of answering them explicitly, and then I pose questions in return, and they are ignored.

Again: How much is the minimum McDonald's should pay for a cashier or fry cook?

Most everyone has gone on record that the tasks performed aren't what makes the job a "shit" job. So, the only thing left is compensation. Paying $7.50 per hour to $10 per hour is, apparently, "shit." So, how much would be the minimum payable so as not to be shit?

[Hermit]

Nobody forces anyone to work at McDonalds. Employees are there by choice. Simple.

Thank you, Seth.

McDonald's offers terms in return for labour. It is the right of anyone to accept or reject those terms. If someone decides to accept them, then they must be more attractive than any (or no) alternative.

So much for choice, Seth.

[Coito ergo sum]

Nobody forces anyone to work at McDonalds. Employees are there by choice. Simple.

Thank you, Seth.

McDonald's offers terms in return for labour. It is the right of anyone to accept or reject those terms. If someone decides to accept them, then they must be more attractive than any (or no) alternative.

So much for choice, Seth.

What alternative are you suggesting?

Employee demands whatever wage he deems appropriate which the employer has not choice but to accept? Government sets wages via a wage board, which neither party has a choice about?

[Svartalf]

Nobody forces anyone to work at McDonalds. Employees are there by choice. Simple.

Thank you, Seth.

McDonald's offers terms in return for labour. It is the right of anyone to accept or reject those terms. If someone decides to accept them, then they must be more attractive than any (or no) alternative.

yeah, starving is always a choice, especially in the current economic situation... I'm pretty sure that in victorian times, kids deliberately chose to work as chimney sweeps or to thieve for fagins too.