Even more problematic stuff

[Forty Two]

Europe isn't a country though. So European hypocrisy makes no sense. But even if it was; how would it make any European individual a hypocrite if they also opposed it at home?

Secondly; the US is a country of immigrants. Seeing white European immigrant descendents in a foreign land they've enjoyed making a good living off complaining about (exclusively brown) immigrants while also fucking over the natives is itself hypocrisy.

Neither is the U.S., in many ways. We have 51 separate legal systems and literally thousands of governments, all under a Federal umbrella. What is legal in Colorado will get you jailed for 25 years in other states. i can't build a shed in my backyard without government approval, but two streets north I can because it's in a different county. Using an abortion case in Arkansas as a criticism of the U.S. in general is as stupid as using a Polish or German or Maltese law to criticize all of Europe.

I think it's fair to ask why the issue of abortion in America gets so much ridicule from people living in countries who have laws regarding abortion that involve the same restrictions and requirements that folks lambaste America for. I mean - it's sooooooo evil for the US to have a counseling requirement, yet not once have i heard a European slam Germany for having just such a requirement.

There's a big difference in legal and illegal immigration. Securing borders against illegal immigrants is not tantamount to racism. A white illegal immigrant will be turfed out just as quickly as a brown one. If there were thousands of Canadians marching on the Maine border you'd see a similar response.

That's the weird thing about the European view of the US. They think it's racist here, but they ignore the reality that brown people (Indians) and yellow people (east Asians) do famously here in the US, easily surpassing native born Americans in education and income. It must be because of all the racism.

[laklak]

It certainly looks like some have a problem with enforcing existing immigration laws. Look at so-called "sanctuary" cities, where illegal immigrants are specifically protected against deportation. It that's not enabling illegal immigration then what is? When the mayor of a city warns illegal immigrants about impending immigration raids it's pretty clear where her sympathies lie.

i'm of two minds on the whole issue. On the one hand I'd like to see completely open borders, but that would require a complete dismantling of any government assistance programs. We simply can't afford to feed, clothe, house, educate, and provide medical care for the literally millions of people who would swarm across the southern borders. I'll cop to being selfish, I don't want to reduce my standard of living to prop up someone else's, particularly if that someone is an immigrant (legal or otherwise). OTOH I've long and expensive experience with legal immigration (so has 42), as my wife is British and we did it legally and aboveboard. It was a pain in the ass. If we had to do it then I do not see why others should get a free pass. I've also lived and worked overseas for many years, and in each of those places (including Ireland) I had to comply with all immigration laws and policies. I was NOT allowed to just waltz in and go to work, and you can forget about claiming any sort of government benefit.

if you go back far enough all countries are peopled by immigrants, it's all about where you draw your lines. What happened to the Picts, anyway?

[Animavore]

Illegal immigrants aren't entitled to government assistance for the most part in the US already.

https://immigrationforum.org/article/fa ... -benefits/

[laklak]

That's true, they don't, but if you have open borders then there'd be no distinction between legal and illegal immigrants. Indeed, no distinction between citizens and non-citizens. Open borders is a great, Libertarian ideal (and is part of the official party platform), but it's unworkable in practice. Shame, because that's the ideal world, IMO.

I see no reason I shouldn't be allowed to move to Mexico and set up a business, or open a real Tex-Mex restaurant in Dublin, but we're not there yet as a species. Maybe some day.

[Cunt]

Illegal immigrants aren't entitled to government assistance for the most part in the US already.

https://immigrationforum.org/article/fa ... -benefits/

Rather than just out and out calling you a liar, I'll ask if you heard about that kid who died in the custody of border patrol?

Kids parents dragged the poor child through a long, arduous crossing of Mexico on foot, provided poor care for the child, then somehow, the border patrol was accused of killing the kid...

It sounds an awful lot like a government worker providing assistance to an illegal immigrant, doesn't it?

[Forty Two]

They get it, because when they apply for benefits, nobody is checking immigration status.

Undocumented immigrants are ineligible for "subsidies" under the Affordable Care Act, but that statement is deceiving, because they are eligible for Medicaid.

For a group that is supposed to be ineligible, I can tell you first-hand that they apply and get benefits. They also are not allowed to be employed in the United States, but they are - and so they have to keep that money under the radar - so, it generally looks like they make nothing or hardly anything. They fill out forms nobody can verify, and then they get benefits.

Immigration is a federal matter, and doling out benefits is a state matter. The states aren't tied into the federal system, and so there is no reliable way for a state employee to know by looking at a person or their passport whether they are legal in the US. People don't even have to present a passport or birth certificate to get state benefits.

[Animavore]

Anyway; I think genuine discussion on immigration is off the table when it comes to Trump's wall. I think that's a distraction. The real discussion is on whether 5 billion (as someone beautifully put it yesterday) on 400AD tech in this age of surveillance is really worth the price for what amounts to a vanity project.

I repeat; immigration is a red herring when it comes to Trump. As with all things Trump, it's all about him and him only.

[Forty Two]

We should just adopt like, UK, Germany or France's immigration policies (for non-EU immigrants). Then the system would be less inviting to immigrants, and they couldn't bitch at us anymore.

Or, build a mote. I think a mote would be cool.

But, I do like your surveillance idea. I think a great plan would be to build walls through the urban areas that are on the border, or areas that are near population centers. But, through the hundreds of miles of open territory, there should be these large surveillance blimps every so many miles along the border. The blimps should have cameras and motion detectors that can scan a given area, and there should be drones that can be randomized to fly between the blimps and scan/record the goings on on the ground and identify humans. A fleet of a few hundred helicopters and crews could be deployed, and if illegals are identified, then the copters can swoop in.

I just went ahead and googled my idea - and lo and behold, they have border patrol blimps. They're being used to try to track and find drones used by drug cartels to send illegal stuff over the border.

[Cunt]

Anyway; I think genuine discussion on immigration is off the table when it comes to Trump's wall. I think that's a distraction. The real discussion is on whether 5 billion (as someone beautifully put it yesterday) on 400AD tech in this age of surveillance is really worth the price for what amounts to a vanity project.

I repeat; immigration is a red herring when it comes to Trump. As with all things Trump, it's all about him and him only.

Knowing how deranged you get around anything Trump does, I imagine you are in favour of continuing the wars he is getting the US out of, repealing the prison reform, and calling him racist for marrying the wrong colour of immigrant.

[Forty Two]

Anyway; I think genuine discussion on immigration is off the table when it comes to Trump's wall. I think that's a distraction. The real discussion is on whether 5 billion (as someone beautifully put it yesterday) on 400AD tech in this age of surveillance is really worth the price for what amounts to a vanity project.

I repeat; immigration is a red herring when it comes to Trump. As with all things Trump, it's all about him and him only.

Knowing how deranged you get around anything Trump does, I imagine you are in favour of continuing the wars he is getting the US out of, repealing the prison reform, and calling him racist for marrying the wrong colour of immigrant.

Trump Opponents: Trump is a loose cannon! He's going to get us into all kinds of wars with his inflammatory foreign policy!

Trump: We're pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan, and I haven't started any new wars anywhere two years into my first term.

Trump Opponents: Trump is a loose cannon! He's irresponsibly getting us out of wars!

[Cunt]

Trump Opponents: Trump is a loose cannon! He's irresponsibly getting us out of wars!

I've seriously thought of trying to show people their bias in that area, but I think it's impossible.

The idea I had, was to identify a dozen or so decisions, which Trump will have to make in the upcoming year, and say which decisions are good, or bad, ahead of time. Then, after those decisions are in, count and see who changes their minds.

No need though. With what I have learned about some of the folks here, there is no way to falsify their 'Trump-hate-theory'.

It is entertaining to watch them bleat though. Soothing, kind of.

[laklak]

It's the blimp, Frank! It's the blimp1

[Seabass]

It certainly looks like some have a problem with enforcing existing immigration laws. Look at so-called "sanctuary" cities, where illegal immigrants are specifically protected against deportation. It that's not enabling illegal immigration then what is?

That's not what a sanctuary city is. In a sanctuary city, police do not inquire about immigration status when illegal immigrants report crime. This is done simply to encourage illegal immigrants to help law enforcement fight crime. It exempts no one from immigration laws.

[laklak]

They also do not inform ICE if an illegal is arrested, and the mayor of Oakland warned the illegal community of an impending immigration sweep, letting an estimated 800 illegals escape. That is far more than just don't ask don't tell when someone is arrested.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ing-alert/

[Seabass]

That thing with the Oakland mayor was an isolated incident. Broadly speaking, the goal of a sanctuary city is encourage illegals to help cops catch criminals.