Even more problematic stuff

[BarnettNewman]

The Republican party is a third world party.

This is a very sad incident.

'She got pregnant at age 38 (not a teenager) and was unwilling or unable to take on the responsibility of caring for another child. She was an adult, but obviously made some rather irresponsible choices. She knew all about being pregnant, having previously given birth and previously had at least five -- FIVE - abortions. She lied to her family and friends denying her pregnancy and claiming it was a fibroid problem. As she got bigger, though, it was more difficult for her to maintain the ruse. She was not going to her regular Obstetrics appointments - no tests, no ultrasounds, nothing. So, she had no idea that she was actually pregnant with two fetuses - twins.

Being 33 weeks pregnant (which is easily a preemie, if born) she began to look into adoption. So, this is not a situation where the evil Republicans are the ones in the way of her getting a legal abortion. No first world country (or almost none) would give her an abortion at 33 weeks. Thirty-three (33) weeks. I've held a 33 week newborn in my hands (well, seen it in intensive care and then later held it in my hands) - not my own child, but a relative's. That's a baby. She, herself, said she wanted to get the baby born right away, because she knew other people who had health babies born at 33 weeks.

Her plan, she said, was to go to a hotel, take a bunch of labor inducing pills, and deliver her 33-week-old fetus and take the baby to Arkansas Children’s Hospital where she believed it would have a good chance of survival and could be adopted to a family in a better position to raise the child. Why in the world she wouldn't just let the baby develop another 5 to 8 weeks and have the damn thing is beyond me. I mean, did she think she was helping the baby by taking labor-inducing pills?

She spent three days taking forty four (44) labor inducing pills trying to get the baby born. It didn't work, so she went back home. She then had the baby, which she said was dead when it was born, and she put it in a plastic bag. She then went to bed. She then woke up a few hours later and took the dead preemie to the hospital.

The crime she was charged with relates to concealing a newborn so as to prevent a determination of whether the baby was born alive, which she effectively did. Nobody could know if the baby was alive when she gave birth. She probably fucked it up enough with 44 labor inducing pills,though, where it's better off that it didn't survive.

Anyway, it's a sad situation all around, and she plainly has some mental problems that require significant professional help. In addition to five abortions, and the inability to get a job over "minimum wage" (as she said) even though she had a college degree, she was nailed for DUI too. So, she's got no money - middle aged - already with a son that relies on her - living at home - and out drinking and fucking to the point that her mother apparently was ready to kick her out of the house.

Does this make me want to see her do time in jail? No. I'm not a big fan of prison for anyone, much less a nutbag, dumbass hick who drinks and fucks her way through five (5) abortions. I feel bad for her, and I feel bad for her son - what an anchor to be born with, a mother like that. Horrible. But, she doesn't need jail, she needs help. Serious, significant help. She needs her tubes tied, too. I wouldn't mandate it, but any reasonable person would have already had a tubal ligation long before her fifth abortion.

And, the southern religious right Republican asshats do have some pointless views about abortion. However, nothing in abortion law really has anything to do with this, because no first world law would permit an abortion at 33 weeks. Moreover, this lady knew how to get abortions - she had five - and she could have had one five or 6 months earlier. She wasn't a teenager with no transportation.

As someone who has twice been in the delivery room - as someone who has twice attended every obstetrics appointment with my wife without fail -- as someone who has seen every ultrasound at every stage of pregnancy and as someone who knows first-hand what a 33 week fetus and preemie looks like in the neonatal intensive care unit - I will tell you that what she did is not something to be applauded. I feel bad for her, and I wish she wasn't jailed. Only, I feel worse for the baby she probably killed, and I feel worse for her son, and I feel worse for her mother.

The video leaves a lot of the story out.

I’m not clicking on the video, so I need to ask. Where is she from?

[laklak]

Arkansas, Slick Willy's old stomping grounds.

[Joe]

Southeast Arkansas. A very different place from Little Rock, where Slick spent most of his time.

A lot of good people, but brutal poverty.

[BarnettNewman]

Well if you’re going to provide zero mandatory sex education, access to affordable contraception and vilify a women’s right to choose this seems to me to be an inevitable outcome.

“Arkansas Receives “F-” Rating On Reproductive Health Report Card | Fort Smith/Fayetteville News | 5newsonline KFSM 5NEWS”

https://5newsonline.com/2016/01/14/arka ... port-card/

A woman must receive state-directed counseling that includes information designed to discourage her from having an abortion, and then wait 48 hours before the procedure is provided. Counseling must be provided in person and must take place before the waiting period begins, thereby necessitating two trips to the facility.

https://www.guttmacher.org/fact-sheet/s ... n-arkansas

[Forty Two]

She was 38 years old, and had been pregnant at least seven times, one of which she gave birth, and five of which she had aborted. Obviously, she was able to get an abortion. And, many first world countries have requirements on abortion. The UK, for example, says it's not a criminal offense to have an abortion if two registered medical practitioners are of the opinion, formed in good faith - (a) that the pregnancy has not exceeded its twenty-fourth week and that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated, of injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman or any existing children of her family; or (b) that the termination of the pregnancy is necessary to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; or (c) that the continuance of the pregnancy would involve risk to the life of the pregnant woman, greater than if the pregnancy were terminated (d) that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.

How about Germany? A 1995 law makes abortion illegal, but neither doctors nor women are prosecuted if the mother is a victim of rape and the procedure is performed within 12 weeks of conception. A similar waiver exists in the first trimester for cases in which the mother has received counseling to encourage carrying her baby to term but still wants an abortion. After the first trimester, abortion is available only to preserve the life or mental or physical health of the mother. State insurance generally does not pay for the procedure except in cases of financial need.

So, in the biggest, most powerful country in enlightened, advanced, far more "progressive" Europe requires mandatory counseling and limits abortion to the first trimester.

Abortion in France is legal on demand up to 12 weeks after conception (14 weeks after the last menstrual period).[1] Abortions at later stages of pregnancy are allowed if two physicians certify that the abortion will be done to prevent grave permanent injury to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman; a risk to the life of the pregnant woman; or that the child will suffer from a particularly severe illness recognized as incurable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_France

Italy allows abortion in the first 90 days and women have to "apply" to get abortions for the right reasons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Italy

Austria's abortion law generally limited to first trimester - not covered by "universal health care" - doctors are allowed to refuse to abort babies if they have religious objections. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Austria

Country by country, it looks like most first world countries have laws that are at least as restrictive as Arkansas, if not moreso.

For some reason, there is little ridicule or criticism of these other, civilized countries, when it comes to this issue. Apparently, German women can withstand the mandatory counseling, but American women are oppressed by it.

[laklak]

European hypocrisy, it's a Real Thing. You're allowed to shoot protesters with water cannons and rubber bullets in Europe, but you can't tear gas a mob of illegal immigrants in the U.S. The U.S. must grant illegal immigrants asylum, but Europe can turn them back. It's Imperialism if the U.S. sends troops into any other country, but when Europe does it's not.

Yabbut Superpower or something.

[Animavore]

Europe isn't a country though. So European hypocrisy makes no sense. But even if it was; how would it make any European individual a hypocrite if they also opposed it at home?

Secondly; the US is a country of immigrants. Seeing white European immigrant descendents in a foreign land they've enjoyed making a good living off complaining about (exclusively brown) immigrants while also fucking over the natives is itself hypocrisy.

[Svartalf]

Problem is that morons and europhobic political activists make far too much of European power and authority over it's component countries... let alone misinformed foreigners.

[Cunt]

Europe isn't a country though. So European hypocrisy makes no sense. But even if it was; how would it make any European individual a hypocrite if they also opposed it at home?

Secondly; the US is a country of immigrants. Seeing white European immigrant descendents in a foreign land they've enjoyed making a good living off complaining about (exclusively brown) immigrants while also fucking over the natives is itself hypocrisy.

I can see you are confused. There are two groups you are mixing up there.
One is 'immigrants'
The other is 'illegal entrants'

See the difference? It would be like conflating people who have sex with rapists. The difference is the willingness of the recipient. (it seems to be important, you might want to review the differences in this light)

[laklak]

Europe isn't a country though. So European hypocrisy makes no sense. But even if it was; how would it make any European individual a hypocrite if they also opposed it at home?

Secondly; the US is a country of immigrants. Seeing white European immigrant descendents in a foreign land they've enjoyed making a good living off complaining about (exclusively brown) immigrants while also fucking over the natives is itself hypocrisy.

Neither is the U.S., in many ways. We have 51 separate legal systems and literally thousands of governments, all under a Federal umbrella. What is legal in Colorado will get you jailed for 25 years in other states. i can't build a shed in my backyard without government approval, but two streets north I can because it's in a different county. Using an abortion case in Arkansas as a criticism of the U.S. in general is as stupid as using a Polish or German or Maltese law to criticize all of Europe.

There's a big difference in legal and illegal immigration. Securing borders against illegal immigrants is not tantamount to racism. A white illegal immigrant will be turfed out just as quickly as a brown one. If there were thousands of Canadians marching on the Maine border you'd see a similar response.

[Forty Two]

Europe isn't a country though. So European hypocrisy makes no sense. But even if it was; how would it make any European individual a hypocrite if they also opposed it at home?

He's pointing out that the Europeans seem to talk a lot about American abortion law, while not talking much at all about their laws at home.

Secondly; the US is a country of immigrants. Seeing white European immigrant descendents in a foreign land they've enjoyed making a good living off complaining about (exclusively brown) immigrants while also fucking over the natives is itself hypocrisy.

The notion that native born people have complained exclusive about brown immigrants is absurd. Every wave of immigration had its opposition, from German, to Irish, to Italian, and now to south and central American hispanics -- many of whom are white, by the way.

And, being white in the US as a descendant of a Brit doesn't make this land "foreign" to me. By that logic, descendants of Africans living in Britain or France are on foreign soil. That notion is quite racist.

[Forty Two]

Europe isn't a country though. So European hypocrisy makes no sense. But even if it was; how would it make any European individual a hypocrite if they also opposed it at home?

Secondly; the US is a country of immigrants. Seeing white European immigrant descendents in a foreign land they've enjoyed making a good living off complaining about (exclusively brown) immigrants while also fucking over the natives is itself hypocrisy.

I can see you are confused. There are two groups you are mixing up there.
One is 'immigrants'
The other is 'illegal entrants'

See the difference? It would be like conflating people who have sex with rapists. The difference is the willingness of the recipient. (it seems to be important, you might want to review the differences in this light)

Someone should drop 10,000 Hondurans and Guatemalans off on an Irish beach and then Ireland can show us how a civilized country handles illegal immigration.

[Animavore]

Europe isn't a country though. So European hypocrisy makes no sense. But even if it was; how would it make any European individual a hypocrite if they also opposed it at home?

Secondly; the US is a country of immigrants. Seeing white European immigrant descendents in a foreign land they've enjoyed making a good living off complaining about (exclusively brown) immigrants while also fucking over the natives is itself hypocrisy.

Neither is the U.S., in many ways. We have 51 separate legal systems and literally thousands of governments, all under a Federal umbrella. What is legal in Colorado will get you jailed for 25 years in other states. i can't build a shed in my backyard without government approval, but two streets north I can because it's in a different county. Using an abortion case in Arkansas as a criticism of the U.S. in general is as stupid as using a Polish or German or Maltese law to criticize all of Europe.

There's a big difference in legal and illegal immigration. Securing borders against illegal immigrants is not tantamount to racism. A white illegal immigrant will be turfed out just as quickly as a brown one. If there were thousands of Canadians marching on the Maine border you'd see a similar response.

I'm not sure many people have a problem with curbing illegal immigration. Though this might be the spin Trump and the right put on it when people oppose his ineffective and massively environmentally and ecologically destructive wall and complain about separating children from their parents.

That said, Trump's administration has tried to stop legal immigrants (the so-called "Muslim ban") and sent legal immigrants home. So there's that too.

[Cunt]

There's a big difference in legal and illegal immigration. Securing borders against illegal immigrants is not tantamount to racism. A white illegal immigrant will be turfed out just as quickly as a brown one. If there were thousands of Canadians marching on the Maine border you'd see a similar response.

Having been through that end of the country, I am going to opt out. Someone else can march on those bush-folk. I'll march on New York, or California, but NOT Maine.

[Cunt]

I'm not sure many people have a problem with curbing illegal immigration. Though this might be the spin Trump and the right put on it when people oppose his ineffective and massively environmentally and ecologically destructive wall and complain about separating children from their parents.

That said, Trump's administration has tried to stop legal immigrants (the so-called "Muslim ban") and sent legal immigrants home. So there's that too.

The so called 'Muslim Ban' was because they were trying to get a handle on Islamic terrorism.

I just read that Austria has decided to ban 'political Islam'. It sounds like a good idea (and distinction)

Lots of people leap to the defense of Muslims on religious (or racial?) grounds, but there is definitely a political branch which should be treated like any foreign government.

This, for example, looks like totally political, and not at all religious.
https://barenakedislam.com/2018/12/31/b ... ts-of-nyc/