The Anglos threw the Puritans out of England.Svartalf wrote:neoliberalism in anglo country is the direct heir of the puritan work ethic, ergo the wealthy are 'blessed' and the poor are tuh Eebil
Is poverty a moral failing...
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
There is very little "moral" opprobrium against the poor today. In fact, there is far less now - at least in the US - opprobrium about being poor than ever before. Nowadays, a rising number of people view poverty as some sort of unfairness, and that people who are poor should actually pay less for things. If you asked 100 people at random whether poor people should pay less for food at restaurants and supermarkets than rich people, I bet nearly half would answer "yes."pErvin wrote:So what? That says nothing about whether neoliberalism explains moral opprobrium of the poor in today's times.Hermit wrote:Moral opprobrium concerning the unemployed preceded neoliberalism by a long shot.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
I bet if you asked 100 people at random whether rich people should pay less tax as a proportion of their income than the poor most would say "no" as well. So how can we ensure this kind of moral optimisation in society, where the rich pay more tax and the poor paying less for food?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
yet they are still carrying on and out much of the puritan ideology.Forty Two wrote:The Anglos threw the Puritans out of England.Svartalf wrote:neoliberalism in anglo country is the direct heir of the puritan work ethic, ergo the wealthy are 'blessed' and the poor are tuh Eebil
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
That's not moral optimization. Why should the price of a hamburger depend on the income or wealth of the consumer?Brian Peacock wrote:I bet if you asked 100 people at random whether rich people should pay less tax as a proportion of their income than the poor most would say "no" as well. So how can we ensure this kind of moral optimisation in society, where the rich pay more tax and the poor paying less for food?
Should the poor pay an income-based amount for charter boats, too? Mercedes cars? 1,000 square meter homes? Rental apartments?
I mean, if a person is a millionaire, but wants to live frugally, is it "moral optimization" to require him to pay $1200 a month for an apartment that a person making, say $50,000 a year, gets for $600 per month? How is that either moral or an optimization?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
In Islam, you say? There is a tax levied by the religion?Śiva wrote:In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
Yep. It's called "Zakat".Forty Two wrote:In Islam, you say? There is a tax levied by the religion?Śiva wrote:In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
It's not a tax if it's like a tithe. It's a voluntary payment. That's no different than saying "In Christianity, people are called upon to give alms to the poor..."Śiva wrote:Yep. It's called "Zakat".Forty Two wrote:In Islam, you say? There is a tax levied by the religion?Śiva wrote:In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
Except for the missing head in cases of none payment.Forty Two wrote:It's not a tax if it's like a tithe. It's a voluntary payment. That's no different than saying "In Christianity, people are called upon to give alms to the poor..."Śiva wrote:Yep. It's called "Zakat".Forty Two wrote:In Islam, you say? There is a tax levied by the religion?Śiva wrote:In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
Well it might be voluntary in the same way being a Muslim at all is voluntary. It's one of the 'five pillars of Islam' - the five things you have to do to call yourself a Muslim.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
In most Muslim nations the zakat is voluntary. Here is the complete list of countries where it is mandatory: Libya, Malaysia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Yemen. Name one where it actually works.Śiva wrote:In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
It is a religious obligation if you're a Muslim. If you opt out of it you're not a Muslim.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
Fine, but again: Name one predominantly Muslim nation where it actually works.Śiva wrote:It is a religious obligation if you're a Muslim. If you opt out of it you're not a Muslim.
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Re: Is poverty a moral failing...
Exactly, being a Muslim at all SHOULD be voluntary. If there is any policy or practice of a church or mosque such that being a certain religion is not voluntary, than that religion is, IMO, a shit religion.Śiva wrote:Well it might be voluntary in the same way being a Muslim at all is voluntary. It's one of the 'five pillars of Islam' - the five things you have to do to call yourself a Muslim.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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