Is poverty a moral failing...

[Forty Two]

neoliberalism in anglo country is the direct heir of the puritan work ethic, ergo the wealthy are 'blessed' and the poor are tuh Eebil

The Anglos threw the Puritans out of England.

[Forty Two]

Moral opprobrium concerning the unemployed preceded neoliberalism by a long shot.

So what? That says nothing about whether neoliberalism explains moral opprobrium of the poor in today's times.

There is very little "moral" opprobrium against the poor today. In fact, there is far less now - at least in the US - opprobrium about being poor than ever before. Nowadays, a rising number of people view poverty as some sort of unfairness, and that people who are poor should actually pay less for things. If you asked 100 people at random whether poor people should pay less for food at restaurants and supermarkets than rich people, I bet nearly half would answer "yes."

[Brian Peacock]

I bet if you asked 100 people at random whether rich people should pay less tax as a proportion of their income than the poor most would say "no" as well. So how can we ensure this kind of moral optimisation in society, where the rich pay more tax and the poor paying less for food?

[Jason]

In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.

[Svartalf]

neoliberalism in anglo country is the direct heir of the puritan work ethic, ergo the wealthy are 'blessed' and the poor are tuh Eebil

The Anglos threw the Puritans out of England.

yet they are still carrying on and out much of the puritan ideology.

[Forty Two]

I bet if you asked 100 people at random whether rich people should pay less tax as a proportion of their income than the poor most would say "no" as well. So how can we ensure this kind of moral optimisation in society, where the rich pay more tax and the poor paying less for food?

That's not moral optimization. Why should the price of a hamburger depend on the income or wealth of the consumer?

Should the poor pay an income-based amount for charter boats, too? Mercedes cars? 1,000 square meter homes? Rental apartments?

I mean, if a person is a millionaire, but wants to live frugally, is it "moral optimization" to require him to pay $1200 a month for an apartment that a person making, say $50,000 a year, gets for $600 per month? How is that either moral or an optimization?

[Forty Two]

In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.

In Islam, you say? There is a tax levied by the religion?

[Jason]

In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.

In Islam, you say? There is a tax levied by the religion?

Yep. It's called "Zakat".

[Forty Two]

In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.

In Islam, you say? There is a tax levied by the religion?

Yep. It's called "Zakat".

It's not a tax if it's like a tithe. It's a voluntary payment. That's no different than saying "In Christianity, people are called upon to give alms to the poor..."

[cronus]

In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.

In Islam, you say? There is a tax levied by the religion?

Yep. It's called "Zakat".

It's not a tax if it's like a tithe. It's a voluntary payment. That's no different than saying "In Christianity, people are called upon to give alms to the poor..."

Except for the missing head in cases of none payment.

[Jason]

Well it might be voluntary in the same way being a Muslim at all is voluntary. It's one of the 'five pillars of Islam' - the five things you have to do to call yourself a Muslim.

[Hermit]

In Islam there is a flat tax levied on the income of all working Muslims that goes directly toward feeding and housing the poor. Civilized that is.

In most Muslim nations the zakat is voluntary. Here is the complete list of countries where it is mandatory: Libya, Malaysia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, and Yemen. Name one where it actually works.

[Jason]

It is a religious obligation if you're a Muslim. If you opt out of it you're not a Muslim.

[Hermit]

It is a religious obligation if you're a Muslim. If you opt out of it you're not a Muslim.

Fine, but again: Name one predominantly Muslim nation where it actually works.

[Forty Two]

Well it might be voluntary in the same way being a Muslim at all is voluntary. It's one of the 'five pillars of Islam' - the five things you have to do to call yourself a Muslim.

Exactly, being a Muslim at all SHOULD be voluntary. If there is any policy or practice of a church or mosque such that being a certain religion is not voluntary, than that religion is, IMO, a shit religion.