L'Emmerdeur wrote:Forty Two wrote:I have now provided infinitely more evidence than you have. I await your rebuttal.
Your "infinitely more evidence" consists of one source.
As
piscator noted, that source would only qualify as reputable in a right wing echo chamber.
It wasn't a right wing echo chamber, and it cited stats and the primary source in the article. I have not seen serious disputation of the numbers. If CIS has produced information which is unreliable, and has been refuted, then surely there are other numbers that are more reliable. I'm definitely open to reviewing them.
I will review those in detail, and respond. I am more than willing to look at contrary evidence, and I recognize that CIS is a nonprofit with the goal of reducing immigration. So, I must remain open to contrary evidence even moreso. So, I will look at the info you presented seriously. It's more than I've had time to look at, as of yet.
L'Emmerdeur wrote:[
Low-income immigrants use public benefits like Medicaid or the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP, formerly the Food Stamp Program) at a lower rate than low-income native-born citizens.1
Note - "immigrants" =/= "illegal immigrants." So, a stat concerning immigrant use of benefits is not relevant to the argument I was making. Illegal immigrants do, improperly, use public benefits, and we are discussing to which they do so. It's not a straightforward statistic, because much of what we are dealing with is by its nature fraudulent.
L'Emmerdeur wrote:[
Many immigrants are ineligible for public benefits because of their immigration status.
Indeed, but being ineligible does not mean "not receiving," and many illegal immigrants also are able to game the system. I am certainly open to any information on the rate they do this. I know "some" of them do -- I know that from direct experience -- I know some illegal immigrants, and they've told me how it is accomplished. I am a child of immigrants, and the spouse of an immigrant (legal), and I am very much in favor of immigration. I am very much, however, of the view that there is a serious problem with "illegal" immigration, and I think people fail to recognize the degree of problem, and I think people often conflate illegal immigration with immigration in general.
L'Emmerdeur wrote:[
Nonetheless, some claim that immigrants use more public benefits than the native born, creating a serious and unfair burden for citizens.2 This analysis provides updated analysis of immigrant and native-born utilization of Medicaid, SNAP, cash assistance (Temporary Assistance for Needy Families and similar programs), and the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) program based on the most recent data from the Census Bureau’s March 2012 Current Population Survey (CPS).
Again, immigrants using public benefits is different than illegal immigrants doing so.
L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Low-income (family income below 200% of poverty line) non-citizen children and adults utilize Medicaid, SNAP, cash assistance, and SSI at a generally lower rate than comparable low-income native-born citizen children and adults, and the average value of public benefits received per person is generally lower for non-citizens than for natives. Because of the lower benefit utilization rates and the lower average benefit value for low-income non-citizen immigrants, the cost of public benefits to non citizens is substantially less than the cost of equivalent benefits to the native-born.
Though you made an assertion that no social security number is required to receive these benefits, unsurprisingly you provided no support, once again.
No social security number is required because people are not "required" to even have a social security number. It's not legally required, and you can't be barred from benefits just because you never applied for a social security number. You CAN be required to disclose the number, however, if you have one. Since most people have one, it's seen as a de facto requirement. However, if a woman shows up to a government office and applies for SNAP and says she doesn't have a social security number to give them, because they live off the grid or something, then they can't require it. I admit, I haven't provided you with the authority for that, but it's kind of a basic legal issue.
Although many companies, such as banks
and credit companies, may ask for your Social
Security number, you generally aren’t required
to provide one if you don’t have one.
Lawfully admitted noncitizens can get
many benefits and services without a Social
Security number. You don’t need a number to
get a driver’s license, register for school, get
private health insurance, apply for school lunch
programs or subsidized housing.
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10096.pdf
Must my child have a Social Security number?: No. Getting a Social Security number for your newborn is voluntary. But, it is a good idea to get a number when your child is born. You can apply for a Social Security number for your baby when you apply for your baby’s birth certificate. The state agency that issues birth certificates will share your child’s information with us and we will mail the Social Security card to you.
[/quote][/quote]
https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10023.pdf“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
