Muslims believe in sharia law.

[JimC]

Jesus, by his own words, did not mean for the old laws to be overturned.

Which law are you talking about? Which law was Jesus talking about? Be specific.

I rather think it was up to him to be specific, rather than Ani...

But quite clearly, if his own words were correctly reported, he was implying support for all of the religious traditions of Judaism, as written in what we now call the Old Testament...

[JimC]

piscator wrote:

Fact is, 100% of all Muslims are quite in favor of the death penalty for apostasy, ipso facto. Executed by a man or by the grace of Allah. They're OK with burning in Hell for a long time after that, too.

Now, you should have realised by now that I'm a bloke with a deep distrust of islam, and I think that one cannot analyse the terrorist threat without realising that the nature of islam is part of the problem.

However, that is a fucking absurd statement, and you know it. Moderate islam does exist, and it would repudiate that particular interpretation.

In some geographic regions, the % that do agree with such a death penalty is quite high enough to be of real concern, without the need for absurd exaggeration...

Multiply results by population. 1 Egypt=Many Albanmian Muslim population. Draws it down to something like 40% worldwide, 400,000,000 Muslims, feel confident enough to blat that shit out to a stranger taking a poll.


Moderate Islam hasn't leg to stand on that's not secular. Scripture says Allah does not forgive apostasy. Where does a Muslim get license to allow apostasy to pass?


"Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever." (Quran 4:168-169)

"Know they not that whoever opposes God and His Messenger (Muhammad), certainly for him will be the Fire of Hell to abide therein? That is the extreme disgrace." (Quran 9:63)

A long way from 100%...

Sure, the position of moderate islam is an uneasy one. However, the long-term hope is that a process of secularisation will slowly but surely affect the muslim world, just as it did the christian world, which thought for a long time that it had a right to dominate the society it was a part of...

[piscator]

Jesus, by his own words, did not mean for the old laws to be overturned.

Which law are you talking about? Which law was Jesus talking about? Be specific.

No.

Charge him for it. Rentseeking is the way of his people.

[Animavore]

Jesus, by his own words, did not mean for the old laws to be overturned.

Which law are you talking about? Which law was Jesus talking about? Be specific.

No.

Charge him for it. It's the way of his people.

That's a good idea. Didn't pulp fiction writers of old used to get a few cents per word?

[piscator]

piscator wrote:

Fact is, 100% of all Muslims are quite in favor of the death penalty for apostasy, ipso facto. Executed by a man or by the grace of Allah. They're OK with burning in Hell for a long time after that, too.

Now, you should have realised by now that I'm a bloke with a deep distrust of islam, and I think that one cannot analyse the terrorist threat without realising that the nature of islam is part of the problem.

However, that is a fucking absurd statement, and you know it. Moderate islam does exist, and it would repudiate that particular interpretation.

In some geographic regions, the % that do agree with such a death penalty is quite high enough to be of real concern, without the need for absurd exaggeration...

Multiply results by population. 1 Egypt=Many Albanmian Muslim population. Draws it down to something like 40% worldwide, 400,000,000 Muslims, feel confident enough to blat that shit out to a stranger taking a poll.


Moderate Islam hasn't leg to stand on that's not secular. Scripture says Allah does not forgive apostasy. Where does a Muslim get license to allow apostasy to pass?


"Surely, those who disbelieve and did wrong; God will not forgive them, nor will He guide them to any way except the way of Hell, to dwell therein forever." (Quran 4:168-169)

"Know they not that whoever opposes God and His Messenger (Muhammad), certainly for him will be the Fire of Hell to abide therein? That is the extreme disgrace." (Quran 9:63)

A long way from 100%...

You're right. It's only 74% of the men and 3% of the women. But 100% are already citizens of the new Islamic State.

Sure, the position of moderate islam is an uneasy one. However, the long-term hope is that a process of secularisation will slowly but surely affect the muslim world, just as it did the christian world, which thought for a long time that it had a right to dominate the society it was a part of...

The long term hope is that someone like China will come along and grind IS into stem cells, and use the by-products to bolster their shrimp farming industry.

[JimC]

(not gonna eat any Chinese shrimp. now...)

[piscator]

Jesus, by his own words, did not mean for the old laws to be overturned.

Which law are you talking about? Which law was Jesus talking about? Be specific.

No.

Charge him for it. It's the way of his people.

That's a good idea. Didn't pulp fiction writers of old used to get a few cents per word?

So that's how postmodernism got kicked off! I had never put that together before.

[Seth]

Jesus, by his own words, did not mean for the old laws to be overturned.

Which law are you talking about? Which law was Jesus talking about? Be specific.

No.

It's good that you can admit your limitations. It shows improving mental health.

[Seth]

Jesus, by his own words, did not mean for the old laws to be overturned.

Which law are you talking about? Which law was Jesus talking about? Be specific.

I rather think it was up to him to be specific, rather than Ani...

But quite clearly, if his own words were correctly reported, he was implying support for all of the religious traditions of Judaism, as written in what we now call the Old Testament...

Is it clear? I don't think it is. Which was he referring to, God's laws as written by his finger on stone tablets or Jewish custom and laws created by other than God? Or perhaps he was referring to civil law, as in "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, render unto God what is God's." More importantly, the quote "... until all is accomplished" can be (and is) read to mean that Jesus' purpose on earth has been accomplished, which again in his own (reported) words means until he dies on the cross, his last words being "it is finished" or "it is accomplished" depending on how it's translated.

So, if that is the meaning, the result is that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross changed everything, including the old Judaic system of laws. And that, if one studies the New Testament, is the clear intent. Jesus was sent to earth as a man, to suffer and die as a man precisely in order to wash away the sins of the world and also wash away the old system and institute a new one, which explains why, when asked if an adulteress should be stoned to death in compliance with Judaic law, he said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

Your interpretation of biblical passages is not authoritative after all, it's just your opinion, and it's not an opinion held by the vast majority of Christians so far as I'm aware. But I understand that tying Christians to Old Testament Judaic tradition and law is essential to your ability to malign Christianity, so I understand the motive for continuing to do so out of willful ignorance and ingrained, religiously-held bigotry and hatred.

But that doesn't make you correct, or morally consistent, much less does it make your arguments even remotely rational.

[Seth]

Jesus, by his own words, did not mean for the old laws to be overturned.

Which law are you talking about? Which law was Jesus talking about? Be specific.

No.

Charge him for it. Rentseeking is the way of his people.

Whose people? Mine? I'm quite thoroughly not Semitic. Are you now casting anti-semitic aspersions as well? Bigotry and racism are not rational, you do know that, right?

[Seth]

Jesus, by his own words, did not mean for the old laws to be overturned.

Which law are you talking about? Which law was Jesus talking about? Be specific.

No.

Charge him for it. It's the way of his people.

That's a good idea. Didn't pulp fiction writers of old used to get a few cents per word?

On that basis you owe me millions of dollars.

[Hermit]

Jesus, by his own words, did not mean for the old laws to be overturned.

Which law are you talking about? Which law was Jesus talking about? Be specific.

You asked the same question only three weeks ago in this post. I replied to it "The law of the prophets, or as you put it, all the rules established by the Old Testament."

The Biblical reference is actually Matthew 5:17 and goes like this: "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill." Verse 18 continues: "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;" In short, specifically every law the prophets wrote down in the Old Testament.

Which was he referring to, God's laws as written by his finger on stone tablets or Jewish custom and laws created by other than God?

In those days no distinction was made between secular and divine laws. Besides, Jesus said he meant "everything". There is no qualification to "not one jot".

Or perhaps he was referring to civil law, as in "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, render unto God what is God's."

That is not part of what the prophets Jesus referred to had written.

More importantly, the quote "... until all is accomplished" can be (and is) read to mean that Jesus' purpose on earth has been accomplished, which again in his own (reported) words means until he dies on the cross, his last words being "it is finished" or "it is accomplished" depending on how it's translated.

Read on to Verse 18: "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away..." It's pretty clear what he meant throughout.

Note, for the sake of the argument I pretend that the biblical Jesus actually existed.

[piscator]

ITT: Someone who has never heard of Mosaic Law and has entirely forgotten everything he wrote yesterday.

Note To Self: May as well take 17,000 of his posts, strip them of context and punctuation, and concatenate them into a single text file. Establish a a database with this text, and run word counts and frequencies and yaddayadda, and store these metrics in APPROPRIATE_FIELDS. Then set up a Sethbot to autoreply to Seth's posts with auto-generated Seth. Start with a ratio of about 3.14159 AutoSeth words to 1 Seth word. Slowly raise the autoreply ratio as Seth compulsively replies to AutoSeth and raises his word count. Increment until po' John Henry can't raise that steel hammer no more, lord lord.

Do same with Samsa.

[Seth]

You asked the same question only three weeks ago in this post. I replied to it "The law of the prophets, or as you put it, all the rules established by the Old Testament."

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

8:1-11 Christ neither found fault with the law, nor excused the prisoner's guilt; nor did he countenance the pretended zeal of the Pharisees. Those are self-condemned who judge others, and yet do the same thing. All who are any way called to blame the faults of others, are especially concerned to look to themselves, and keep themselves pure. In this matter Christ attended to the great work about which he came into the world, that was, to bring sinners to repentance; not to destroy, but to save. He aimed to bring, not only the accused to repentance, by showing her his mercy, but the prosecutors also, by showing them their sins; they thought to insnare him, he sought to convince and convert them. He declined to meddle with the magistrate's office. Many crimes merit far more severe punishment than they meet with; but we should not leave our own work, to take that upon ourselves to which we are not called. When Christ sent her away, it was with this caution, Go, and sin no more. Those who help to save the life of a criminal, should help to save the soul with the same caution. Those are truly happy, whom Christ does not condemn. Christ's favour to us in the forgiveness of past sins should prevail with us, Go then, and sin no more.

That's what you get for quote mining and not considering the passages in their proper context.

[Seth]

ITT: Someone who has never heard of Mosaic Law and has entirely forgotten everything he wrote yesterday.

Note To Self: May as well take 17,000 of his posts, strip them of context and punctuation, and concatenate them into a single text file. Establish a a database with this text, and run word counts and frequencies and yaddayadda, and store these metrics in APPROPRIATE_FIELDS. Then set up a Sethbot to autoreply to Seth's posts with auto-generated Seth. Start with a ratio of about 3.14159 AutoSeth words to 1 Seth word. Slowly raise the autoreply ratio as Seth compulsively replies to AutoSeth and raises his word count. Increment until po' John Henry can't raise that steel hammer no more, lord lord.

Do same with Samsa.

Interesting pseudo Turing test. Have at it.