GW alarmists passages still blocked.

[Hermit]

Neither can I, but it does provide a bigger picture. I think the pattern you can see there is more significant than any climate change we have recorded over the past couple of centuries.

[Tero]

Generally, there is lack of comprehension about the x axis in climate talks. But that's not the question I asked you/mm.

What is the warming factor on the 10-12 thousand year scale?

[Hermit]

Tero, your question was "in your own words, list the one most important factor to warming, whether man made or natural" I gave you my answer: Milankovitch cycles. The way you phrased the comment about the 10,000 year time span made it seem optional, but even if it wasn't, that's my answer.

[Tero]

Wrong answer. And go back to thousands, not 20-40 thousand years.

The reason is that there is a problem with 100 000 years
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/100,000-year_problem

And I'm no expert on that.

[Tero]

I'm completely happy with this
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 134127.htm

ice ages, 100 000 cycles, have been studied and explained. And it's slow and it will be measurable for the cycle we are in.

This is NOT what we are experienceing this century, this millennium. But there is a simple explanation for the 12 000 year graph I linked.

[mistermack]

MM, in your own words, list the one most important factor to warming, whether man made or natural. (There is an answer.)

We can limit this to the last 10 000 years for simplicity.

It's the sun, you dozy sod.
Have you not noticed how it gets cold at night?

[Tero]

Wrong answer. You failed middle school science. D- for you. The sun is merely the source of all warmth.

Nothing corelates to temperature as well as CO2 for 400 000 years. And even better for the last 10 000 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age#me ... t_data.svg

First graph if you are on mobile version.

[mistermack]

list the one most important factor to warming

The sun is merely the source of all warmth.

Sometimes I despair of you !!

And how the hell can you not know by now, that historical CO2 levels FOLLOW temperature, rather than lead it?
In other words, CO2 rises and falls with ocean temperatures, quite naturally, because the ocean holds more in solution more when it's cold?
Or did you forget?

[Hermit]

Well, I'll be buggered. From the link you posted, Tero, it looks like although the difference between glacial and interglacial temperatures keeps increasing, the planet has been cooling down over the past 5 million years. I never knew that until a few minutes ago.

[Tero]

list the one most important factor to warming

The sun is merely the source of all warmth.

Sometimes I despair of you !!

And how the hell can you not know by now, that historical CO2 levels FOLLOW temperature, rather than lead it?
In other words, CO2 rises and falls with ocean temperatures, quite naturally, because the ocean holds more in solution more when it's cold?
Or did you forget?

At least we are getting somewhere. CO2 is associated with warming. You admit that much.

No, it does not follow warming. It IS the warming. This was not clear 10 years ago. The ice core data was redone.

http://news.ku.dk/all_news/2012/2012.7/ ... s_and_co2/

other thatn the years we people have been messing with carbon, the few hundred year lag is basically nothing. It is concurrent. There is math to explain it but you have to go to skepticalscience.com. The feedback requires a short lag.

The point you are missing is that there is no other way to trap sun heat than by greenhouse gas. Tilts etc are minor changes.

[Tero]

The surface of the planet, a dark object, can warm up whether there is an atmosphere or not. We are talking about the sun and the atmosphere above.

Another paper:
The mean and 1σ of the histograms are given. CO2 concentration leads the global temperature stack in 90% of the simulations and lags it in 6%.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 10915.html

[klr]

Whoa! This is not the the time or the place for hard science. It's a thread thread on climate change denial after all.

[macdoc]

floating themselves into another universe where the smoke is pink and smells of candy floss.

[Tero]

"Warming is caused by the sun's rays. Warming is good. I like to stand in the sun. I hate shoveling snow."

Is that better, klr?

[macdoc]

warming is caused by over enthusiastic hugging of fuzzy bears....