Lying for Reason and Science

[Robert_S]

Was RD forum the first "atheist" forum for all of you people? I was involved with a a bunch of forums then so I did post that much. I was mainly looking for places to practice some Finnish on a daily basis.

Yes. It helped me liberate myself from the 12-Step woo and I'll be forever grateful to the old forum for that!

[lordpasternack]

I'll get back onto this tomorrow. And don't worry - I haven't really got to the juicier bits, yet.

[borealis]

As a random atheist, I don't give a damn. But as a random donor, I do.

[lordpasternack]

As a random atheist, I don't give a damn. But as a random donor, I do.

My emphasis.

I'll mention simply and briefly right now that, so far as I am informed, all donations made through RD.net go through R. Elisabeth Cornwell's PERSONAL PayPal account, and if you mail a cheque, it goes to the UPS PO box that she attends to personally, in Virginia. And you can be well assured that she is not audited at all - and even if she was, there are a thousand ways she could play funnybuggers with those donations, and hide her tracks, without it being properly seen. And the fact that it's her personal account means that it would be very difficult to investigate, even if something nefarious was suspected.

You just have to trust her to be honest - and frankly, who wouldn't?

Such is the 'evidence-based' 'critically thinking' trainwreck that is RDFRS.

[Audley Strange]

You know, I think I'm more interested in pseudo history or pseudo science books like the stuff by Graham Hancock, Zechariah Sitchin, the Holy Blood/Holy Grail folk etc... at least, in those, you can make a game of extracting the nuggets of truth from the woo matrix.

You know what... I was thinking about just this thing since I've been watching the utterly hilarious Ancient Aliens. I mean it is preposterous, totally, but once you get by all the sci-fi bullshit it tells you quite a lot about ancient architecture, empires, belief systems, art, history, politics, fascinating natural phenomenon and a whole host of other topics that without the hilarious Centauri Ambassador Molari lookalike most people would have zero interest it. Same with the Assassin's Creed games. They've got tonnes of nice articles in the games about architecture history and European politics during the middle ages all wrapped up in a war between Templar's and Assassins.

Is pseudoscience them perhaps stealth knowledge or is it a case of "a little knowledge is a dangeous thing."

I'm not sure, but I'm curious about it.

[lordpasternack]

Part 1: Continued...

Time for a bit of The Purpose of Purpose




Here's how the credits appeared in their original form, in 24 November 2009:




And on 24 August 2010


Hmmm... Where have those credits gone?


And on 31 October 2010


Oh, they're back!


And here's how they now look. (Again with a link to the Google Cache, in case they change in the near future.)



Oh? Really? R. Elisabeth Cornwell is a 'producer'? Where did that one come from?


The lovely irony here, also, is that if you skip to the near the end (52:07) and let the credits roll - there sure as hell isn't any mention of any 'R. Elisabeth Cornwell' as producer (which she surely would have added, if she had the chance to contribute but a mouse-click and a few keystrokes to the production). But we shan't let pesky reality get in the way of our pretensions.

[Tyrannical]

Were all these 73 videos all produced by JT/Upper Branch?

Most definitely. They don't all have explicit copyright notes - and there may indeed be some genuine ambiguity as to who owns intellectual property there - but if you look at the evidence, for the ones I was capable of unearthing evidence for - they were at least filmed by JT (occasionally in collaboration with others).

And that R. Elisabeth Cornwell is so blithe as to remove a clear copyright notice - as if that means that, therefore - poof! - the copyright ceases to exist - tells you much of what you need to know about her fundamental soundness of mind. Of course - the same goes for the rest of the credits she's gone and disappeared - but I just thought that example really took the biscuit - and on a fucking Baloney Detection video, too!

Either she has no sense of irony, or this is all a very elaborate set-up. Like a test, to see which of Richard's fans really are critical thinkers, and devotees to evidence-based understanding.

If Timonen was an employee of Dawkins at the time the films were made, it was a "work for hire" and he doesn't own any of the copyrights, and unless he negotiated a legal document specifying that he be credited with certain aspects of production, he's just fucked and Dawkins can scrub his name if he wants.

No, Timonen owns the copyright unless he specifically gave it up in a written contract.

[Svartalf]

You know, I think I'm more interested in pseudo history or pseudo science books like the stuff by Graham Hancock, Zechariah Sitchin, the Holy Blood/Holy Grail folk etc... at least, in those, you can make a game of extracting the nuggets of truth from the woo matrix.

You know what... I was thinking about just this thing since I've been watching the utterly hilarious Ancient Aliens. I mean it is preposterous, totally, but once you get by all the sci-fi bullshit it tells you quite a lot about ancient architecture, empires, belief systems, art, history, politics, fascinating natural phenomenon and a whole host of other topics that without the hilarious Centauri Ambassador Molari lookalike most people would have zero interest it. Same with the Assassin's Creed games. They've got tonnes of nice articles in the games about architecture history and European politics during the middle ages all wrapped up in a war between Templar's and Assassins.

Is pseudoscience them perhaps stealth knowledge or is it a case of "a little knowledge is a dangeous thing."

I'm not sure, but I'm curious about it.

Sneaking in knowledge through entertainment can be fine... the problem is making sure the audience gets the right stuff and does not mix it up with the fictional bits.

and pseudoscience really mixes fact and fiction far too much for my taste... separating the two can be a pain.

[lordpasternack]

Part 1: Continued again...

Who wants an introduction to RDFRS? (Don't worry, it's very much an expired and irrelevant introduction by now. They're about 'innovating for a secular world', now - and have made manifestly clear by now how little they actually value critical thinking and evidence-based understanding. Or at least - they're clear about how much they they value it for other people, and how little they actually value it for themselves.)





Here's how the credits appeared on 21 June 2010:




And here's how they looked until a few days ago. (Google Cache - correct at time of going to press.)



Oh? Really? R. Elisabeth Cornwell is a 'producer'? Where did that one come from?


And how they look now:




Once again - you are invited to let the credits roll:

[Ian]

Was RD forum the first "atheist" forum for all of you people? I was involved with a a bunch of forums then so I did post that much. I was mainly looking for places to practice some Finnish on a daily basis.

My first was Sam Harris' forum, though I don't know if it still exists. It was a quiet little place, and I spent most of my time arguing with a hopelessly devout Christian who called himself The Champion. I think he showed up at RDF too, though it wasn't long after I joined RDF that I became a degenerate, non-intellectual pervert, and I didn't talk to him much there.

You people have corrupted me, and I thank you.

[klr]

Was RD forum the first "atheist" forum for all of you people? I was involved with a a bunch of forums then so I did post that much. I was mainly looking for places to practice some Finnish on a daily basis.

My first was Sam Harris' forum, though I don't know if it still exists. It was a quiet little place, and I spent most of my time arguing with a hopelessly devout Christian who called himself The Champion. I think he showed up at RDF too, though it wasn't long after I joined RDF that I became a degenerate, non-intellectual pervert, and I didn't talk to him much there.

You people have corrupted me, and I thank you.

Oh he did ... I can't remember if we banned him, or if he left by himself.

[Clinton Huxley]

I remember The Champion. Hah.

[lordpasternack]

Part 1: Continued one last time...

Two more attempts at making my point, should suffice - before we move onto the other stuff that compounds the wanton dishonesty and questionable sanity detailed here.

PZ Myers Discussion:




Here's how the credits appeared in their original form on 27 September 2009




And on 9 April 2010



Those credits - they've vanished...


And here's how they look now (with obligatory Google Cache link, in case they are amended shortly.)



Oh? Really? R. Elisabeth Cornwell is a 'producer'? Where did that one come from?


And, Steven Weinberg Discussion:




Here's how the credits appeared on 27 September 2009




And on 9 April 2010



The credits appear to have gone missing...


And here's how they look now (with obligatory Google Cache link)



Okay - you're shitting me now. Can someone explain to me just who the fuck made R. Elisabeth Cornwell a 'producer'? - and what inspired that particular afterthought that happened after 2011?

Oh - it was good old R. Elisabeth Cornwell herself? How innovative of her!

[Thumpalumpacus]

You know, I think I'm more interested in pseudo history or pseudo science books like the stuff by Graham Hancock, Zechariah Sitchin, the Holy Blood/Holy Grail folk etc... at least, in those, you can make a game of extracting the nuggets of truth from the woo matrix.

You know what... I was thinking about just this thing since I've been watching the utterly hilarious Ancient Aliens. I mean it is preposterous, totally, but once you get by all the sci-fi bullshit it tells you quite a lot about ancient architecture, empires, belief systems, art, history, politics, fascinating natural phenomenon and a whole host of other topics that without the hilarious Centauri Ambassador Molari lookalike most people would have zero interest it. Same with the Assassin's Creed games. They've got tonnes of nice articles in the games about architecture history and European politics during the middle ages all wrapped up in a war between Templar's and Assassins.

Is pseudoscience them perhaps stealth knowledge or is it a case of "a little knowledge is a dangeous thing."

I'm not sure, but I'm curious about it.

One of the things that ignited my interest in First Word War aviation in particular was getting the game Red Baron. Included in its software is a substantial PDF (perhaps 120 pages) that gives a pretty detailed overview of the role aviation played in that war.

I give that sort of thing the Wiki treatment: I'll read, or watch, with interest, and if my interest is piqued, I then look into the source material to delve deeper into the topic.

[surreptitious57]

You know what you should do Heather and I mean this in all seriousness : write a book
on this for you are so obsessed with it : I do not confess to know exactly what your
motivation is here and I can sympathise with you if you feel wronged but some
times it is just best to let things go : either that or do some thing positive
with it though if you are still doing this say two years from now I will be
concerned : understand that no one else here is worried about this
Now please let it go before it soon starts to take control of you