To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.

[Bella Fortuna]

I wonder what Seth will come up to justify this. Oh, yeah it was just a few priests, all other Catholics are good.

I agree that most Catholics are good. Most people are good. But, the organization has been an engine of an excess of evil.

Indeed. And by knowingly associating themselves with an organisation that has perpetrated such numerous and ever-growing list of evils makes them tacitly accepting and supportive of them.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I wonder what Seth will come up to justify this. Oh, yeah it was just a few priests, all other Catholics are good.

I agree that most Catholics are good. Most people are good. But, the organization has been an engine of an excess of evil.

Indeed. And by knowingly associating themselves with an organisation that has perpetrated such numerous and ever-growing list of evils makes them tacitly accepting and supportive of them.

Shall we Godwin this thread?

[Bella Fortuna]

I already did.

[Horwood Beer-Master]

...I KNOW religion isn't the only way to get people to do utterly evil things.

Doing utterly evil things is one thing, but mistaking the utterly evil things you do for utterly good things..?

[Gallstones]

Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.

[Seabass]

I wonder what Seth will come up to justify this. Oh, yeah it was just a few priests, all other Catholics are good.

Most Catholics are good, aren't they? Do you really believe otherwise?

[Gallstones]

...I KNOW religion isn't the only way to get people to do utterly evil things.

Doing utterly evil things is one thing, but mistaking the utterly evil things you do for utterly good things..?

That's called making excuses.

I do think that a goodly portion of any population are simply too stupid to know when they are being had.
They exist in politics, religion and high schools.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

...I KNOW religion isn't the only way to get people to do utterly evil things.

Doing utterly evil things is one thing, but mistaking the utterly evil things you do for utterly good things..?

Yep, "For the greater glory of the (fill in the blank)" isn't exclusive to religion.

[Coito ergo sum]

Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.

Religion has the nasty habit of turning things that otherwise decent human beings would consider to be awful into not only good things, but things mandated by the deity. You know, like Abraham being directed to slit his son's throat, or the Israelites murdering all the Amalekites, and raping their women. Immense evil becomes commanded goodness. Like chopping off the tip of every boys' John Thomas. Pointless and cruel, but a good covenant with God.

And, humans are basically good. Some suck. And, in desperate situations they will do desperate things. But, generally speaking, they are good, kind, trustworthy, caring and generous. At least that has been my experience.

[Coito ergo sum]

...I KNOW religion isn't the only way to get people to do utterly evil things.

Doing utterly evil things is one thing, but mistaking the utterly evil things you do for utterly good things..?

Yep, "For the greater glory of the (fill in the blank)" isn't exclusive to religion.

Not exclusive, no. But, it is religion's, shall we say, métier...

[Gallstones]

I wonder what Seth will come up to justify this. Oh, yeah it was just a few priests, all other Catholics are good.

Most Catholics are good, aren't they? Do you really believe otherwise?

OK, overweening cynicism aside, I have to say that yes, most Catholics are good. As good as any other group.
I've lived amongst them all my life. I was one--still am apparently. They are essentially unremarkable in the good/bad category. Some good, some bad, good or neutral most of the time, some quirks, and some bad some of the time.

I doubt the Castrati had a choice, and I don't think the motivation was evil. Those involved probably sincerely believed it was a good thing. And for many of those boys it probably was. Not everyone has to be a breeder, but everyone does have to be an eater and having a singing voice would insure a life of care and employ.

[Gallstones]

Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.

Religion has the nasty habit of turning things that otherwise decent human beings would consider to be awful into not only good things, but things mandated by the deity. You know, like Abraham being directed to slit his son's throat, or the Israelites murdering all the Amalekites, and raping their women. Immense evil becomes commanded goodness. Like chopping off the tip of every boys' John Thomas. Pointless and cruel, but a good covenant with God.

And, humans are basically good. Some suck. And, in desperate situations they will do desperate things. But, generally speaking, they are good, kind, trustworthy, caring and generous. At least that has been my experience.

Religion isn't an entity or a being and it has no magical powers or influence. It is humans who have the nasty tendency to turn indecent. Religion is the garment those nasty humans wear.

Humans are not basically good. They appear so when things are good for them. When things go bad most will turn, rare individuals will remain good and most of them only towards their in-group.

Humans are basically human. Our bonds with each other motivate and justify violence. Religion need not be a factor.

[Robert_S]

Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.

Religion has the nasty habit of turning things that otherwise decent human beings would consider to be awful into not only good things, but things mandated by the deity. You know, like Abraham being directed to slit his son's throat, or the Israelites murdering all the Amalekites, and raping their women. Immense evil becomes commanded goodness. Like chopping off the tip of every boys' John Thomas. Pointless and cruel, but a good covenant with God.

And, humans are basically good. Some suck. And, in desperate situations they will do desperate things. But, generally speaking, they are good, kind, trustworthy, caring and generous. At least that has been my experience.

The Abraham story is about JHVH-1 rejecting human sacrifice by providing a lamb caught in a thicket. But it is also a story of the founder of a religion being willing to perform such a deed. An excellent example of how faith can lead to wickedness and barbarity where natural instincts would lead to compassion and protection.

[Gallstones]

In all of human existence it has only been the Catholic Church that visited [alleged] cruelty upon the vulnerable.

[Gallstones]

Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.

Religion has the nasty habit of turning things that otherwise decent human beings would consider to be awful into not only good things, but things mandated by the deity. You know, like Abraham being directed to slit his son's throat, or the Israelites murdering all the Amalekites, and raping their women. Immense evil becomes commanded goodness. Like chopping off the tip of every boys' John Thomas. Pointless and cruel, but a good covenant with God.

And, humans are basically good. Some suck. And, in desperate situations they will do desperate things. But, generally speaking, they are good, kind, trustworthy, caring and generous. At least that has been my experience.

The Abraham story is about JHVH-1 rejecting human sacrifice by providing a lamb caught in a thicket. But it is also a story of the founder of a religion being willing to perform such a deed. An excellent example of how faith can lead to wickedness and barbarity where natural instincts would lead to compassion and protection.

All the stories in the bible were written by people. It is their ideas, their world view--the human one--that the stories tell.

Ideas preceded events/acts and had to precede the stories. That means the ideas existed first and the stories came after to codify, and support and justify the occurrence and perpetuation of those ideas and acts.

If it exists in a human it is natural, whether instinctual or inspired, regardless of what manifests. Some of these might rightly be considered disordered for the time and place--but they are still natural.

We do know that even today not all individuals are capable of compassion or empathy. We do know that large numbers of people can be influenced to violate their feelings of compassion and empathy. I expect this has been the case for all of human existence.