Indeed. And by knowingly associating themselves with an organisation that has perpetrated such numerous and ever-growing list of evils makes them tacitly accepting and supportive of them.Coito ergo sum wrote:I agree that most Catholics are good. Most people are good. But, the organization has been an engine of an excess of evil.maiforpeace wrote:I wonder what Seth will come up to justify this. Oh, yeah it was just a few priests, all other Catholics are good.
To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
Shall we Godwin this thread?Bella Fortuna wrote:Indeed. And by knowingly associating themselves with an organisation that has perpetrated such numerous and ever-growing list of evils makes them tacitly accepting and supportive of them.Coito ergo sum wrote:I agree that most Catholics are good. Most people are good. But, the organization has been an engine of an excess of evil.maiforpeace wrote:I wonder what Seth will come up to justify this. Oh, yeah it was just a few priests, all other Catholics are good.
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
I already did. 

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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
Doing utterly evil things is one thing, but mistaking the utterly evil things you do for utterly good things..?Gawdzilla wrote:...I KNOW religion isn't the only way to get people to do utterly evil things.

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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.
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The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
Most Catholics are good, aren't they? Do you really believe otherwise?maiforpeace wrote:I wonder what Seth will come up to justify this. Oh, yeah it was just a few priests, all other Catholics are good.
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
That's called making excuses.Horwood Beer-Master wrote:Doing utterly evil things is one thing, but mistaking the utterly evil things you do for utterly good things..?Gawdzilla wrote:...I KNOW religion isn't the only way to get people to do utterly evil things.
I do think that a goodly portion of any population are simply too stupid to know when they are being had.
They exist in politics, religion and high schools.
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The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
Yep, "For the greater glory of the (fill in the blank)" isn't exclusive to religion.Horwood Beer-Master wrote:Doing utterly evil things is one thing, but mistaking the utterly evil things you do for utterly good things..?Gawdzilla wrote:...I KNOW religion isn't the only way to get people to do utterly evil things.
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
Religion has the nasty habit of turning things that otherwise decent human beings would consider to be awful into not only good things, but things mandated by the deity. You know, like Abraham being directed to slit his son's throat, or the Israelites murdering all the Amalekites, and raping their women. Immense evil becomes commanded goodness. Like chopping off the tip of every boys' John Thomas. Pointless and cruel, but a good covenant with God.Gallstones wrote:Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.
And, humans are basically good. Some suck. And, in desperate situations they will do desperate things. But, generally speaking, they are good, kind, trustworthy, caring and generous. At least that has been my experience.
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
Not exclusive, no. But, it is religion's, shall we say, métier...Gawdzilla wrote:Yep, "For the greater glory of the (fill in the blank)" isn't exclusive to religion.Horwood Beer-Master wrote:Doing utterly evil things is one thing, but mistaking the utterly evil things you do for utterly good things..?Gawdzilla wrote:...I KNOW religion isn't the only way to get people to do utterly evil things.
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
OK, overweening cynicism aside, I have to say that yes, most Catholics are good. As good as any other group.Seabass wrote:Most Catholics are good, aren't they? Do you really believe otherwise?maiforpeace wrote:I wonder what Seth will come up to justify this. Oh, yeah it was just a few priests, all other Catholics are good.
I've lived amongst them all my life. I was one--still am apparently. They are essentially unremarkable in the good/bad category. Some good, some bad, good or neutral most of the time, some quirks, and some bad some of the time.
I doubt the Castrati had a choice, and I don't think the motivation was evil. Those involved probably sincerely believed it was a good thing. And for many of those boys it probably was. Not everyone has to be a breeder, but everyone does have to be an eater and having a singing voice would insure a life of care and employ.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
Religion isn't an entity or a being and it has no magical powers or influence. It is humans who have the nasty tendency to turn indecent. Religion is the garment those nasty humans wear.Coito ergo sum wrote:Religion has the nasty habit of turning things that otherwise decent human beings would consider to be awful into not only good things, but things mandated by the deity. You know, like Abraham being directed to slit his son's throat, or the Israelites murdering all the Amalekites, and raping their women. Immense evil becomes commanded goodness. Like chopping off the tip of every boys' John Thomas. Pointless and cruel, but a good covenant with God.Gallstones wrote:Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.
And, humans are basically good. Some suck. And, in desperate situations they will do desperate things. But, generally speaking, they are good, kind, trustworthy, caring and generous. At least that has been my experience.
Humans are not basically good. They appear so when things are good for them. When things go bad most will turn, rare individuals will remain good and most of them only towards their in-group.
Humans are basically human. Our bonds with each other motivate and justify violence. Religion need not be a factor.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
The Abraham story is about JHVH-1 rejecting human sacrifice by providing a lamb caught in a thicket. But it is also a story of the founder of a religion being willing to perform such a deed. An excellent example of how faith can lead to wickedness and barbarity where natural instincts would lead to compassion and protection.Coito ergo sum wrote:Religion has the nasty habit of turning things that otherwise decent human beings would consider to be awful into not only good things, but things mandated by the deity. You know, like Abraham being directed to slit his son's throat, or the Israelites murdering all the Amalekites, and raping their women. Immense evil becomes commanded goodness. Like chopping off the tip of every boys' John Thomas. Pointless and cruel, but a good covenant with God.Gallstones wrote:Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.
And, humans are basically good. Some suck. And, in desperate situations they will do desperate things. But, generally speaking, they are good, kind, trustworthy, caring and generous. At least that has been my experience.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
In all of human existence it has only been the Catholic Church that visited [alleged] cruelty upon the vulnerable.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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Re: To make good people do evil things, that takes religion.
All the stories in the bible were written by people. It is their ideas, their world view--the human one--that the stories tell.Robert_S wrote:The Abraham story is about JHVH-1 rejecting human sacrifice by providing a lamb caught in a thicket. But it is also a story of the founder of a religion being willing to perform such a deed. An excellent example of how faith can lead to wickedness and barbarity where natural instincts would lead to compassion and protection.Coito ergo sum wrote:Religion has the nasty habit of turning things that otherwise decent human beings would consider to be awful into not only good things, but things mandated by the deity. You know, like Abraham being directed to slit his son's throat, or the Israelites murdering all the Amalekites, and raping their women. Immense evil becomes commanded goodness. Like chopping off the tip of every boys' John Thomas. Pointless and cruel, but a good covenant with God.Gallstones wrote:Religion isn't the cause for humans doing shitty things, it is a convenient excuse manipulated by those with authority.
Humans are inherently nasty creatures and not to be trusted.
And, humans are basically good. Some suck. And, in desperate situations they will do desperate things. But, generally speaking, they are good, kind, trustworthy, caring and generous. At least that has been my experience.
Ideas preceded events/acts and had to precede the stories. That means the ideas existed first and the stories came after to codify, and support and justify the occurrence and perpetuation of those ideas and acts.
If it exists in a human it is natural, whether instinctual or inspired, regardless of what manifests. Some of these might rightly be considered disordered for the time and place--but they are still natural.
We do know that even today not all individuals are capable of compassion or empathy. We do know that large numbers of people can be influenced to violate their feelings of compassion and empathy. I expect this has been the case for all of human existence.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter
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