What were you before you became and atheist?

Post by **Jason** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:16 am

What Seraph said. If you try to discuss something with him where you disagree you'll find it impossible as he never stays focused on a central point. He'll often argue circles around a vague notion that your supposed to guess at. When his argument is refuted he'll often cherry pick something else and respond to that as if it was the focus all along. It's more than a little irritating.

Ignorance and faulty logic doesn't bother me when it's honest.

Post by **JimC** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:21 am

PordFrefect wrote:What Seraph said. If you try to discuss something with him where you disagree you'll find it impossible as he never stays focused on a central point. He'll often argue circles around a vague notion that your supposed to guess at. When his argument is refuted he'll often cherry pick something else and respond to that as if it was the focus all along. It's more than a little irritating.

I agree, but there are also some interesting and thought-provoking ideas in many of his posts. As someone else said, it's not the ideas that are the problem, it's aspects of his mode of interaction with other posters... And it is not a problem in any serious way; it would be ridiculous to term it trolling, for example. Just a bit annoying...

Post by **charlou** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:33 am

JimC wrote:I agree, but there are also some interesting and thought-provoking ideas in many of his posts.

It's good to try to look past the chaff to get to the appetising kernels ...

Post by **charlou** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:34 am

ahhh ... and that's not a pony euphemism ...

Post by **irretating** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:46 am

charlou wrote:ahhh ... and that's not a pony euphemism ...

Neigh way

Post by **charlou** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:47 am

As if I'd ever be so ... unstable ...

Post by **irretating** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:49 am

...or unbridled...

Post by **charlou** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:00 am

*clippety clop*

Post by **Svartalf** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:06 am

JimC wrote:From all the sterile and cranky arguing on this thread there emerges a topic which is actually quite interesting. Stripped of the preoccupation with "atheists don't really exist", the whole question of the degree to which our Christian-dominated past still affects aspects of our current society. Most in this thread accept that it does to a degree, even if in a fairly superficial way. It seems that Exi is suggesting the effects run deeper than most of us might accept.

There is a difference between how much this past religious influence effects aspects of social organisation such as government and law, and how much it affects one's persona, even if one has consciously rejected the need for a god or a religion.

I think this is a topic worth considering...

From what I can detect in every domain, from social mores to speech patterns, I'm afraid that thing runs deep and permeates our collective unconscious at every level.

Post by **Svartalf** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:11 am

Feck wrote:If our cultural root is Christianity... Explain the names for the days of the week please !

less visible in English or German, but looks at Spanish where saturday is sabado (sabbath), and sunday domingo (Lord's day).

Post by **Svartalf** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:20 am

Feck wrote:
Exi5tentialist wrote:
Feck wrote:If our cultural root is Christianity... Explain the names for the days of the week please !
Would it be inaccurate to describe our names for the days of the week as a North European gloss, artificially superimposed on the Roman 7-day week? Is Rome not the true source of the christian religion? (and our calendar, and the Common Era itself?)

Without Rome's all-pervasive influence, wouldn't christianity just be another middle eastern religion for us westerners to get phobic about?
I think you will find the seven day week is a Babylonian invention .
So for what percentage of our history have we been a Christian culture ? and why does everything that happened before get ignored in your assumption ? Just cos I can't find any 4,00yr old churches around here but there are lots of standing stones and we don't parade saints around the streets but we do burn a few Viking longboats . We don't have a christian culture we have a Christian Veneer over the top of our culture .

Let's face it, any civilisation using a lunar based calendar, or soli lunar, will find the 7 day week, easily dividing the lunar month into 4 practical units, a natural thing... I'm not inclined to do research on the subject for the moment, but I wouldn't be surprised if other cultures had come up with it without contact with Mesopotamia or the cultures that adopted their week.

Post by **Svartalf** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:27 am

Exi5tentialist wrote:
Feck wrote:If you don't like it here under the authoritarian structure and patriarchal authority that is rationalia you could leave,I mean we have so plainly refused to implement forum wide changes to accommodate you .
You see, that is an example of exclusivity. Exclusivity is a basic tool of discipline in most christian churches. It is yet another example of the way that so many of you who call yourselves atheists are culturally and behaviourally steeped in the mechanisms of christianity. You confidently state "we have" with the same confidence as those who sing "we plough the fields and scatter" in Sunday church. But there is no "We". "We" have decided nothing, let alone refused anything, besides which I have not so far formally proposed a single democratic reform here anyway.

Bug you. Banishing trouble makers has been a tool of social control since prehistory, and the world across. Ancient Athenians (and I supposed other Greek cities) ostracized public men whom were feared might become public enemies. Pagan Norse banished killers and other criminals, either abroad for a limited time, or from all civilisation, with anybody finding them allowed to kill them without legal repercussions. This has nothing to do with christianity specifically.

Post by **Xamonas Chegwé** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:32 am

Svartalf wrote:
Exi5tentialist wrote:
Feck wrote:If you don't like it here under the authoritarian structure and patriarchal authority that is rationalia you could leave,I mean we have so plainly refused to implement forum wide changes to accommodate you .
You see, that is an example of exclusivity. Exclusivity is a basic tool of discipline in most christian churches. It is yet another example of the way that so many of you who call yourselves atheists are culturally and behaviourally steeped in the mechanisms of christianity. You confidently state "we have" with the same confidence as those who sing "we plough the fields and scatter" in Sunday church. But there is no "We". "We" have decided nothing, let alone refused anything, besides which I have not so far formally proposed a single democratic reform here anyway.
Bug you. Banishing trouble makers has been a tool of social control since prehistory, and the world across. Ancient Athenians (and I supposed other Greek cities) ostracized public men whom were feared might become public enemies. Pagan Norse banished killers and other criminals, either abroad for a limited time, or from all civilisation, with anybody finding them allowed to kill them without legal repercussions. This has nothing to do with christianity specifically.

I don't believe Feck was threatening to banish anyone. He simply suggested fucking off as one of a range of possible options.

Post by **Svartalf** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:32 am

Robert_S wrote:It is a nice trolling tool, to associate everything you don't like with Christianity and/or theism.

By Eris Robert, I'm going to believe you're a christian.

Post by **Svartalf** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:35 am

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Exi5tentialist wrote:
Feck wrote:If you don't like it here under the authoritarian structure and patriarchal authority that is rationalia you could leave,I mean we have so plainly refused to implement forum wide changes to accommodate you .
You see, that is an example of exclusivity. Exclusivity is a basic tool of discipline in most christian churches. It is yet another example of the way that so many of you who call yourselves atheists are culturally and behaviourally steeped in the mechanisms of christianity. You confidently state "we have" with the same confidence as those who sing "we plough the fields and scatter" in Sunday church. But there is no "We". "We" have decided nothing, let alone refused anything, besides which I have not so far formally proposed a single democratic reform here anyway.
Bug you. Banishing trouble makers has been a tool of social control since prehistory, and the world across. Ancient Athenians (and I supposed other Greek cities) ostracized public men whom were feared might become public enemies. Pagan Norse banished killers and other criminals, either abroad for a limited time, or from all civilisation, with anybody finding them allowed to kill them without legal repercussions. This has nothing to do with christianity specifically.
I don't believe Feck was threatening to banish anyone. He simply suggested fucking off as one of a range of possible options.

any guy who keeps hounds is a social and ideological danger and needs to be exiled, or at least shunned.

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