Herman Cain: It's Your Fault if You're Unemployed

[MrJonno]

You can't force an employer to be an employer after all.

Nah but you can tax his wealth if society doesnt think he is using it for the good of society.

Individual versus the people will always lose in the end, because they are one and the people many

[Seth]

It is NOT capitalism when the government, acting as an agent of big business, enacts regulatory and tax laws that specifically target small businesses. I paid corporate tax on my little operation, GE made 14 BILLION in profit and got a tax credit. How is that capitalism at work? I don't ask for special treatment, I only want to be able to run a small business and provide a niche product that big producers don't. However, the USDA is firmly in the pocket of Big Food and they do everything in their power to make it impossible for local producers to stay in business.

I agree. The new regulations requiring registration of farms and EVERY SINGLE ANIMAL on them, from birth to consumption, are driving small ag producers out of business. It was a factor in my closing my operation, though not the only one. I had no intention of registering my farm with the USDA or "chipping" every head of livestock I produced and keeping track of the paperwork on them pretty much forever. Wasn't going to comply when it became mandatory. Fortunately, I sold the ranch before I had to make that decision, but the regulatory nightmare is now affecting small producers nationwide and is destroying them. And it's gonna get worse, what with the Listeria bacteria outbreak in Colorado this summer. The USDA is certain to lard up producers with more regulations, even though this was a failure of the EXISTING system and regulations (you know, the ones that say "don't sell listeria-tainted food?").

It's all about aggregating and arrogating federal power. The next scam they are going to tout is "anti-terrorism food protection" regulations, to keep Al Quaeda from sending sleeper agents with Hep A to pee on our lettuce.

[Seth]

You can't force an employer to be an employer after all.

Nah but you can tax his wealth if society doesnt think he is using it for the good of society.

Tyrants and despots "can" do many things. Whether what they do is moral or acceptable is an entirely different matter. And no, in the US we cannot tax someone's wealth just because they aren't using as the government wishes them to use it...at least at present.

Individual versus the people will always lose in the end, because they are one and the people many

That's why the individual has, and needs, the right to keep and bear arms, so that he can resist the tyranny of the majority with extreme prejudice if necessary.

[MrJonno]

That's why the individual has, and needs, the right to keep and bear arms, so that he can resist the tyranny of the majority with extreme prejudice if necessary.

I prefer paying taxes so the government can form armies to protect me from tyranny, the history of tyranny is basically protecting the majority from the minority often the one not the other way around

[Seth]

If their regulations are designed to protect the public, then why did the listeria outbreak occur in the first place? The melons were grown on a farm in Colorado and were USDA inspected. In every major food borne outbreak in recent years, the offending products were already regulated by the USDA. Check this site out.

http://www.foodhaccp.com/outbreak.htm

There is also a level of personal responsibility here. Listeria isn't inside the melon, it's on the skin. Don't slice open the melon without first cleaning it with a chlorine solution. Don't buy pre-cut melons. If you're older or have a compromised immune system, do not eat raw or uncooked meats, don't buy preprocessed foods like hotdogs and make sure you follow the same sort of sanitation procedures that any responsible food producer (like me) does.

This is something that the new reportage COMPLETELY failed to address. They NEVER ONCE said that listeria bacteria are ON THE OUTER RIND of the melon, and it can be killed and/or washed off AT HOME before slicing the melon, and SHOULD BE (along with washing your HANDS after handling produce in the store...do you really want the checkout clerk's Hepatitis B or influenza viri on your vegetables). The FDA has been telling people for decades to wash their fruits and vegetables before consuming them.

The outbreak occurred because the company involved was using improper procedures for sanitizing the melons when they were packed, but you are absolutely right that they were violating EXISTING state regulations by doing so.

We don't need federal regulations, and we don't need federal enforcement, all we need is for the state to act on it's existing regulations and for the farm to be put out of business by being sued by the people it harmed. That will work more efficiently to convince other growers to make damned sure their equipment is up to snuff than any new regulations, particularly federal regulations that are duplicative, expensive and ultimately useless.

In fact, federal regulations probably CAUSED this outbreak in large part because due to the chest-pounding by the FDA, people think that their food supply is invariably safe and sanitary. In third-world countries, people WASH THEIR PRODUCE carefully before eating it precisely because they know perfectly well that there's no government agency out there "ensuring" a safe food supply...which is something that NO GOVERNMENT can possibly do 100 percent of the time, ever.

If the people who bought those contaminated melons had ASSUMED they were contaminated with listeria or e-coli, and had handled and sanitized the fruit before eating it, the outbreak WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED.

It happened because people have been falsely lead to believe, by the FDA, that the food supply is always safe and sanitary.

If you get sick from hamburger or melons, it's your own damned fault, and no government regulation is going to prevent your own stupidity from being its own reward.

[Coito ergo sum]

It happened because people have been falsely lead to believe, by the FDA, that the food supply is always safe and sanitary.

Always wash fruit. The field workers....well.... "when ya gotta go...ya gotta go!"

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Hoover was a typical Republican - "don't do anyhting to help the poor - that would reward laziness. A rugged individual will succeed if they want to." Hence they threw him out after 1 term.

And elected FDR, yet even though he was the longest serving President, that depression still didn't end until he was dead and buried.

Which shows you how screwed up everything was when he got into office.

[Coito ergo sum]

Gotta love unfalsfiable claims...

...FDR fixed it!

...well, he was president for 9 years, and the economic indicators did not really improve, and then world war 2 happened, and "recovery" appeared to coincide with the post war industrial boom...

...that just goes to show how bad things were... had FDR not been president, they would have been much worse....

[Gawdzilla Sama]

...that just goes to show how bad things were... had FDR not been president, they would have been much worse....

Agreed. The stability of FDR in the White House helped as much as anything else. It gave honest, hardworking people something to hang on to, and it gave Repugnicans someone to loath.

[MattShizzle]

Actually the depression was over by the time the US entered WWII due to war production knowing we were likely to get involved and selling stuff to the allies. Of course until after FDR was dead people still couldn't get all they wanted due to rationing for the war effort, though they weren't starving.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Actually the depression was over by the time the US entered WWII due to war production knowing we were likely to get involved and selling stuff to the allies. Of course until after FDR was dead people still couldn't get all they wanted due to rationing for the war effort, though they weren't starving.

I let the "dead and buried" thing slide because exactly when it ended depends on whether you like FDR or not.

[Coito ergo sum]

Actually the depression was over by the time the US entered WWII due to war production knowing we were likely to get involved and selling stuff to the allies. Of course until after FDR was dead people still couldn't get all they wanted due to rationing for the war effort, though they weren't starving.

I let the "dead and buried" thing slide because exactly when it ended depends on whether you like FDR or not.

It's not so much dependent on that. I like FDR, what I know about him as a President.

Unemployment:

GDP:

Even based on GDP, the Depression didn't end in the US until 1939. Most economists, though, have the depression lasting until about 1942 or 43. A little something called World War 2 and the US overseas trade in munitions, materials and supplies kicked in at about that time.

What makes the most sense to me about the Great Depression is the view that Federal Reserve policy caused and worsened the depression. There was a loose money supply in the 1920's which caused an unsustainable boom. By about a year before the stock market crash, the Fed tried to tighten the money supply, but the economic crash was already inevitable. The stock market crash followed in 1929. When the Fed let a bunch of banks fail shortly thereafter, that caused the run on the banks, which worsened the whole situation. Unemployment started going up about a year or so after the crash and skyrocketed, productivity plummeted. Things like the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act caused a massive decline in international trade, because it sparked retaliatory measures by other countries, and that worsened things. And, things that Roosevelt spearheaded actually prolonged the Depression, such as when he affirmatively allowed businesses to collude without any threat of antitrust action. The National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA) exempted industries from antitrust prosecution if they agreed to enter into collective bargaining agreements. Protection from antitrust prosecution ensured higher prices for goods and services. After the NIIRA was declared unconstitutional a few years after its passage, the Roosevelt administration continued to look the other way at price-fixing and other anticompetitive behavior. Interestingly, the recovery coincided with the Department of Justice starting to vigorously enforce price-fixing and antitrust laws again. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123353276749137485.html

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Yeah, whatever.

[Coito ergo sum]

Let me rephrase: The Great Depression started in 1929 when Hoover was President because the Repugnicans are doodoo heads who want people to starve and die in the streets. FDR rode in on a white horse, like Gandalf riding in toward Helms deep (the orcs are Republicans). He promptly ended the depression through thoughtful and appropriate government action, and since then the Democrats have been and remain the party of kindness, gentleness, altruism, intelligence, and beauty. All good things are the result of Democrats, and the bad are the result of Republicans. Any allegation that the Great Depression lasted until the 1940's and that Roosevelt's policies were anything but perfect is just FauxNews propaganda and Halliburton probably has something to do about it...Prescott Bush was a Nazi...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Let me rephrase: The Great Depression started in 1929 when Hoover was President because the Repugnicans are doodoo heads who want people to starve and die in the streets. FDR rode in on a white horse, like Gandalf riding in toward Helms deep (the orcs are Republicans). He promptly ended the depression through thoughtful and appropriate government action, and since then the Democrats have been and remain the party of kindness, gentleness, altruism, intelligence, and beauty. All good things are the result of Democrats, and the bad are the result of Republicans. Any allegation that the Great Depression lasted until the 1940's and that Roosevelt's policies were anything but perfect is just FauxNews propaganda and Halliburton probably has something to do about it...Prescott Bush was a Nazi...

That's the pettifogging part.