Global war on drugs 'has failed'

[Eriku]

What do you suppose would happen if all the pot-smokers dropped their cowardice (or is it indifference?) and turned themselves in tomorrow?

Do you think they would prosecute all those druggies, causing countless criminals to be released due to clogged courts? Or do you think it would cause a change in the law?

Really, if you are a fearless and honest citizen, that is the best way to protest. They can't lock everyone up. Oh, and if there are too few druggie criminals for this to work, then the druggies will be off the street. Call it stupid and immature if you like, but I think that is just masking your reluctance to be a martyr for your cause.

Keep on whinging instead. That seems to be doing good for you so far.

Not as easy as that, is it now? A: there'd have to be a huge contingency of people doing it, hard to guarantee... Secondly I live in a small town area, and if I get arrested on those grounds my family might very well get some of the brunt as the news spreads... Thirdly, I work in child services, and if I get a blemish on my record I lose my only recently attainted job, being the first job I really love, and that would be bad for me, the municipality, and the young refugees to whom I've been a good influence, if I may say so.

This, and more, would mean it'd be more selfish of me to make a martyr of myself than to keep on trucking surreptitiously.

Get off your fucking high horse.

[Atheist-Lite]

I've nothing against drugs however drugs are pushed on vulnerable people with traumatised lives and I'd like to see the pushers hung in the public square to provide a incentive for taking the poor mans money out of the equation. It's gonna make drugs so expensive only over-priveleged brats who know what their getting into, having a education, can afford them....my intention would be to regulate the market not eliminate it.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

"Drugs aren't pushed. Drugs are pulled!" Penn Jillette.

[Atheist-Lite]

"Drugs aren't pushed. Drugs are pulled!" Penn Jillette.

Pushers aren't hung their just coming down from a high.

[Cunt]

Get off your fucking high horse.

I am on no horse of any kind, but I DO know just how much good is done by child services. Maybe you should consider the height of your horse, friend.

I think you will find that the only problem is guaranteeing a huge participation. I wouldn't do it because, like you, I would rather keep treating it as law-breaking and deal with that, than with the huge fight over such a small thing.

There certainly are bigger fish to fry.

By the way, I think one of the reasons child services is as futile as it is, is that everyone must sterilize their present (though it IS acceptable to have a checkered past) and teach the kids what they KNOW are lies.

How many kids per year will you be allowed to teach the truth about recreational drugs? How many will you have to lie to with scary presentations about the dangers of drugs?

Facebook will out everyone soon enough as smokers, drinkers, orgiers and all that other stuff that the puritans would have us believe that 'nice folk don't do'. So the point is really moot.

By the way, if I overcame all my fear and really WAS an honest citizen (which I am not) I WOULD turn myself in. It would be the right thing to do.

Would YOU 'drink the hemlock' when the time came, Eriku? (I would not)

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Crumple, have you noticed that there is a 'hole' in social services where if a kid is between about 14 and 18, they stop helping? If the kid won't accept the management of the designated foster parents/group home, (say, by choosing recreational drugs sometimes), they are out, and since most places won't give welfare to someone under 18, they are left with few options.

Jail is one.

The drug dealers and pimps know very well about this 'hole' in social service, and exploit it appropriately to their respective businesses.

[Atheist-Lite]

Get off your fucking high horse.

I am on no horse of any kind, but I DO know just how much good is done by child services. Maybe you should consider the height of your horse, friend.

I think you will find that the only problem is guaranteeing a huge participation. I wouldn't do it because, like you, I would rather keep treating it as law-breaking and deal with that, than with the huge fight over such a small thing.

There certainly are bigger fish to fry.

By the way, I think one of the reasons child services is as futile as it is, is that everyone must sterilize their present (though it IS acceptable to have a checkered past) and teach the kids what they KNOW are lies.

How many kids per year will you be allowed to teach the truth about recreational drugs? How many will you have to lie to with scary presentations about the dangers of drugs?

Facebook will out everyone soon enough as smokers, drinkers, orgiers and all that other stuff that the puritans would have us believe that 'nice folk don't do'. So the point is really moot.

By the way, if I overcame all my fear and really WAS an honest citizen (which I am not) I WOULD turn myself in. It would be the right thing to do.

Would YOU 'drink the hemlock' when the time came, Eriku? (I would not)

--------------------

Crumple, have you noticed that there is a 'hole' in social services where if a kid is between about 14 and 18, they stop helping? If the kid won't accept the management of the designated foster parents/group home, (say, by choosing recreational drugs sometimes), they are out, and since most places won't give welfare to someone under 18, they are left with few options.

Jail is one.

The drug dealers and pimps know very well about this 'hole' in social service, and exploit it appropriately to their respective businesses.

I know about social services. They and their secret child stealing cult should be abolished and they deserve to be skinned alive in the public square by the kids they've stolen.

[Eriku]

Get off your fucking high horse.

I am on no horse of any kind, but I DO know just how much good is done by child services. Maybe you should consider the height of your horse, friend.

I think you will find that the only problem is guaranteeing a huge participation. I wouldn't do it because, like you, I would rather keep treating it as law-breaking and deal with that, than with the huge fight over such a small thing.

There certainly are bigger fish to fry.

By the way, I think one of the reasons child services is as futile as it is, is that everyone must sterilize their present (though it IS acceptable to have a checkered past) and teach the kids what they KNOW are lies.

How many kids per year will you be allowed to teach the truth about recreational drugs? How many will you have to lie to with scary presentations about the dangers of drugs?

Facebook will out everyone soon enough as smokers, drinkers, orgiers and all that other stuff that the puritans would have us believe that 'nice folk don't do'. So the point is really moot.

By the way, if I overcame all my fear and really WAS an honest citizen (which I am not) I WOULD turn myself in. It would be the right thing to do.

Would YOU 'drink the hemlock' when the time came, Eriku? (I would not)

--------------------

Crumple, have you noticed that there is a 'hole' in social services where if a kid is between about 14 and 18, they stop helping? If the kid won't accept the management of the designated foster parents/group home, (say, by choosing recreational drugs sometimes), they are out, and since most places won't give welfare to someone under 18, they are left with few options.

Jail is one.

The drug dealers and pimps know very well about this 'hole' in social service, and exploit it appropriately to their respective businesses.

You sure you know what child services does in Norway, let alone my area of the country? We've not been jamming any propaganda into the heads of kids, and if I were asked to trump up bogus claims I'd certainly tell them that I'd do no such thing... I'd tell them all the true things, that youths in a crucial time of their lives would do well to leave their brain chemistry alone, but I wouldn't misinform them, as I think that's unconscionable...

Incidentally I don't think having the law deal with it is in any way the best thing to do, but me being a casualty wouldn't do much... An organised and HUGE wave of people fessing up might, but I won't just give it a jolly good go and hope that I make the news, and that people'll pick up the baton.

I only work with young refugees without parents, btw... and they lack so much fundamental education and so much language skills that drugs "education" isn't on the list right now.

But no, this isn't the time for me to rock my boat... I've just received a tremendous amount of help from my parents and others in settling, and have seen great progress with the kids I've been helping since February, and have just settled into a new flat... I'd be shooting myself in the foot as well as vaulting a huge amount of excrement at people I care about if I outed myself for nothing now... If the time comes that the Hemlock might be drunk and might change things, I reckon I might do it... but I'd like to get some more experience in before I fuck myself over... I'm quite short on that and life doesn't treat those without credentials kindly.

[Cunt]

You sure you know what child services does in Norway, let alone my area of the country?

No, I don't. I do, however, have a pretty good hint from a source I hope you respect.

Thirdly, I work in child services, and if I get a blemish on my record I lose my only recently attainted job, being the first job I really love, and that would be bad for me, the municipality, and the young refugees to whom I've been a good influence, if I may say so.

So I would deduce that you would not be allowed to tell the kids that you smoke weed (if you do) and how you regulate yourself. Even if you don't, there are lots of responsible adults around who do recreational drugs, and have done them since their early teens. Do you share those stories? Or just the ones about harm?

It's pretty obvious that you are dealing with the same shit we are. Can you help a young person learn to hide their drug use from social services and the police? Would you be able to put that into a written report to give to your boss or funders?

We've not been jamming any propaganda into the heads of kids, and if I were asked to trump up bogus claims I'd certainly tell them that I'd do no such thing... I'd tell them all the true things, that youths in a crucial time of their lives would do well to leave their brain chemistry alone, but I wouldn't misinform them, as I think that's unconscionable...

Would you tell them ALL the true things? Or just the ones which support a 'don't use drugs' message?

Incidentally I don't think having the law deal with it is in any way the best thing to do, but me being a casualty wouldn't do much... An organised and HUGE wave of people fessing up might, but I won't just give it a jolly good go and hope that I make the news, and that people'll pick up the baton.

You and me both, Eriku. I have been trying to think of how much of a 'wave' it would take to get me to turn myself in. I can't say. I think I would be a late-adopter.

I only work with young refugees without parents, btw... and they lack so much fundamental education and so much language skills that drugs "education" isn't on the list right now.

I have no doubt that you are working hard and aiming for great success. I am not as sure that you will be able to do it under any large administration. Mostly, my best hope is that you do not follow the lead of your policies and policy-makers.

But no, this isn't the time for me to rock my boat... I've just received a tremendous amount of help from my parents and others in settling, and have seen great progress with the kids I've been helping since February, and have just settled into a new flat... I'd be shooting myself in the foot as well as vaulting a huge amount of excrement at people I care about if I outed myself for nothing now... If the time comes that the Hemlock might be drunk and might change things, I reckon I might do it... but I'd like to get some more experience in before I fuck myself over... I'm quite short on that and life doesn't treat those without credentials kindly.

You aren't kidding!

So are you really able to teach EVERYTHING about recreational drug use? Or just the polished version? Can you tell the folks you work with that you (if you do) smoke, keep it away from work and try not to foul other people's air too much? Or is it still a situation where you are best off avoiding the issue or pretending that you don't do drugs?

(that is the way it is mostly here and I mostly comply)

[Eriku]

You sure you know what child services does in Norway, let alone my area of the country?

No, I don't. I do, however, have a pretty good hint from a source I hope you respect.

Thirdly, I work in child services, and if I get a blemish on my record I lose my only recently attainted job, being the first job I really love, and that would be bad for me, the municipality, and the young refugees to whom I've been a good influence, if I may say so.

So I would deduce that you would not be allowed to tell the kids that you smoke weed (if you do) and how you regulate yourself. Even if you don't, there are lots of responsible adults around who do recreational drugs, and have done them since their early teens. Do you share those stories? Or just the ones about harm?

It's pretty obvious that you are dealing with the same shit we are. Can you help a young person learn to hide their drug use from social services and the police? Would you be able to put that into a written report to give to your boss or funders?
Would you tell them ALL the true things? Or just the ones which support a 'don't use drugs' message?

Nothing's been specified to us with regards to that... it's just not on the agenda as there's so much other stuff to get to grips with... but fair enough, you do have a point in that you can't be frank and sincere about certain things... or that if I were I'd be doing so at my own peril.

Incidentally I don't think having the law deal with it is in any way the best thing to do, but me being a casualty wouldn't do much... An organised and HUGE wave of people fessing up might, but I won't just give it a jolly good go and hope that I make the news, and that people'll pick up the baton.

You and me both, Eriku. I have been trying to think of how much of a 'wave' it would take to get me to turn myself in. I can't say. I think I would be a late-adopter.

I only work with young refugees without parents, btw... and they lack so much fundamental education and so much language skills that drugs "education" isn't on the list right now.

I have no doubt that you are working hard and aiming for great success. I am not as sure that you will be able to do it under any large administration. Mostly, my best hope is that you do not follow the lead of your policies and policy-makers.

But no, this isn't the time for me to rock my boat... I've just received a tremendous amount of help from my parents and others in settling, and have seen great progress with the kids I've been helping since February, and have just settled into a new flat... I'd be shooting myself in the foot as well as vaulting a huge amount of excrement at people I care about if I outed myself for nothing now... If the time comes that the Hemlock might be drunk and might change things, I reckon I might do it... but I'd like to get some more experience in before I fuck myself over... I'm quite short on that and life doesn't treat those without credentials kindly.

You aren't kidding!

So are you really able to teach EVERYTHING about recreational drug use? Or just the polished version? Can you tell the folks you work with that you (if you do) smoke, keep it away from work and try not to foul other people's air too much? Or is it still a situation where you are best off avoiding the issue or pretending that you don't do drugs?

(that is the way it is mostly here and I mostly comply)

I do act a bit like a big brother/parent, and I do try to level with them without getting specific to my own experiences about drugs... there's plenty of data and research out there that I can point to... then again, with the policies and policy-makers being what they are, that alone might be enough to get me fired... if that were the case then fine, the world's mad and I'm trying not to add to it.

As for my colleagues and whatnot, I reckon my boss wouldn't look kindly at me if I said I smoked, perhaps even fire me... I've told one of my colleagues, as I sussed that he's a smart chap that won't judge you on those kind of grounds, but yeah, it's very much a matter of politics and prediction, and I'd be better off pretending that I don't rather than being open about it.

Norway's not one of the better countries with regards to this, sure... and my mum's worked for a long time in child services as well and has seen how badly things can go for those who try drugs, which leads her to some wildly inaccurate syllogisms... I've tried discussing with her and we've left it at a "don't ask don't tell" sort of compromise where she doesn't worry as my life is very much on the rails. But as far as my job goes it's a non-issue, and I can be honest to the youths about what drug use entails.

I do think the tide is slowly turning, globally, though... and if I knew that me turning myself in could turn it all around, I'd make that sacrifice... but as it stands I'm "complying", as you put it.

[Cunt]

I am overall, too. I do think, though, that being honest with young people about drugs is better than being dishonest. Even if it IS for their own good.
Maybe especially then.

My daughters know about my drug-use (marihuana, alcohol and samples of others). I don't want them thinking I would lie. Some of my clients know. Most do not. When I meet a client with problems associated with drugs, I try to give them practical advice, rather than parrot the anti-drug message coming from everyone else.

Such as telling a fellow how marihuana use can be detected, and how to cover if needed. I honestly don't care whether my clients do drugs or not. It only matters to me in the context of work.

[Eriku]

Propaganda doesn't work, no... Norway certainly parroted the US "just say no" sort of stance during my youth, and I swallowed it whole... drugs are bad, mmkay... Then I got older and I got curious, I read up on it A LOT before trying anything, and when I found out I'd been lied to it really made me a tad more defiant. I also tried being honest with my parents when they asked whether I'd tried cannabis... They asked me several times when I was 18, and one day I fessed up, and they did nothing to make me feel like I'd done the right thing in not lying to them... It's hard to see what the incentive is then.

My mum went ballistic when she found out... She'd NEVER get that mad if she heard that my alcoholic little brother had some cooked up 60% or more alcohol in his possession, which would technically be classified as drugs. The knee-jerk reactions that pop up in these contexts remind me of moral outrage that's been inculcated... like what you might hear from someone who reckons marriage is a heterosexual thing, and nothing but, and anything else is an abomination. Not healthy and not helpful, IMO.

I applaud your being straight up with your daughters... I hope that's going to prove a good approach for you.

[Cunt]

Propaganda doesn't work, no... Norway certainly parroted the US "just say no" sort of stance during my youth, and I swallowed it whole... drugs are bad, mmkay... Then I got older and I got curious, I read up on it A LOT before trying anything, and when I found out I'd been lied to it really made me a tad more defiant. I also tried being honest with my parents when they asked whether I'd tried cannabis... They asked me several times when I was 18, and one day I fessed up, and they did nothing to make me feel like I'd done the right thing in not lying to them... It's hard to see what the incentive is then.

My mum went ballistic when she found out... She'd NEVER get that mad if she heard that my alcoholic little brother had some cooked up 60% or more alcohol in his possession, which would technically be classified as drugs. The knee-jerk reactions that pop up in these contexts remind me of moral outrage that's been inculcated... like what you might hear from someone who reckons marriage is a heterosexual thing, and nothing but, and anything else is an abomination. Not healthy and not helpful, IMO.

I applaud your being straight up with your daughters... I hope that's going to prove a good approach for you.

We'll see. Part of the reason your parents think all drug-users are losers might be that most people in your position prefer to be private about their drug use.

Me too.

Fuck.

Is this hope? Or more ineffective hippy crap? http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... arch-drugs

[DRSB]

It is not going well:

WASHINGTON -- Forty years after President Richard Nixon first declared a war on drugs, the officers who fought in it are calling for a truce.

Former law enforcement officials gathered in the District of Columbia on Tuesday to announce their new report. It details the failures of the government's long battle against illegal drugs and denounces the Obama administration's current drug policies.

"Since President Nixon declared 'war on drugs' four decades ago, this failed policy has led to millions of arrests, a trillion dollars spent and countless lives lost, yet drugs today are more available than ever," said Norm Stamper, former chief of police in Seattle and a speaker for legalization-advocacy group Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

"President Obama's drug officials keep saying they've ended the 'drug war,'" the LEAP member said. "But our report shows that's just not true, and we'll be hand-delivering a copy to the drug czar in hopes he'll be convinced to actually end this war, or at least stop saying he already has."

The officers' announcement came just weeks after the Global Commission on Drugs -- which includes former United Nations chief Kofi Annan and past presidents of Mexico, Brazil and Colombia -- released a report urging a non-criminal approach to world drug policy.

The commission's recommendations were reportedly dismissed by both the Obama administration and the government of Mexico. With the support of the United States, Mexican President Felipe Calderón began a crackdown on drug cartels in 2006.

The intensification of the war on drugs in Mexico has led to nearly 40,000 deaths in turf battles, the LEAP report notes. From 2009 to 2010, drug-related killings in that country increased by 60 percent.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/1 ... 77702.html

[Cunt]

Let's all move to Portugal.