US Philadelphia Student Carrying Legal Firearm Shoots It Out

[borealis]

He demanded the money first and when the victim refused to give any, he started to shoot. It was as wrong as any shooting

I must be misreading something.

Refusing to hand over the money is.....wrong? Wrong?

You can't be serious. Read it again.

[mistermack]

There's so much missing in these accounts of what happened, I'd like to know what the full story was.
All you seem to get are the same headlines in the media reporting, with no detail or mention of their sources. It may be ok, if you're used to automatically believing what the media say, but I like to know HOW they know what they are saying.

It appears that this is a really dangerous area, where stuff like this has happened before.
If that's the case, it appears that the false sense of security that the gun gave the student contributed to him getting shot. If he hadn't been carrying the gun, he may have thought better of sitting on the front step in the early hours.

Some things are odd about it.
1) Apparently there were two of them sitting on the step. The 15 year old gunman shot the one with the gun. Was that just lucky, or was the gun already out?
2) The gunman was hit twice, once in the leg, and once in the back. If that was me, I would have carried on shooting, if I'd been shot. And none of the supposed others in the group got hit.
But maybe they just scattered. But knowing he had a gun, I would have kept firing. The student was fit enough to run indoors and upstairs, to call for help, so he was able to shoot.

I still think there are questions to be answered, but I suppose the police must have a more complete picture than what they are giving out.

[Gallstones]

A little perspective on differences between Montana USA and the UK.

So far this summer two people camping have been killed by bears.
The local veterinarian was fishing at one of his favorite fishing spots last week when he was stalked by a black bear.
He had his 10mm with him--as he always does--shot at the bear and it wasn't deterred. It came after him. He managed to kill it. Had he been without his handgun he'd be bear shit today.

We live close to the wilderness. We like to hike and camp and fish and hunt.
There are dangers to living with the wilderness--we need our guns.

Tell me, how does one negotiate with a bear?
Because the vet tossed it his fish. Bear didn't want the fish.

[Gallstones]

He demanded the money first and when the victim refused to give any, he started to shoot. It was as wrong as any shooting

I must be misreading something.

Refusing to hand over the money is.....wrong? Wrong?

You can't be serious. Read it again.

Yes I was serious.
To me it reads as if you were saying it was wrong for the guy to refuse to hand over the money.
Guess I read it wrong.

[borealis]

He demanded the money first and when the victim refused to give any, he started to shoot. It was as wrong as any shooting

I must be misreading something.

Refusing to hand over the money is.....wrong? Wrong?

You can't be serious. Read it again.

Yes I was serious.
To me it reads as if you were saying it was wrong for the guy to refuse to hand over the money.
Guess I read it wrong.

I can't understand how you could have read it that way. Here's my post again: "...he didn't just start to shoot. He demanded the money first and when the victim refused to give any, he started to shoot. It was as wrong as any shooting, [it] doesn't give the robber any justification to what he did. Neither has the victim any obligation to give his money when someone is pointing a gun at him and demanding money. "
So if I just put that short: It is very wrong that this kid started to shoot poor victim, and the fact that victim didn't give his money doesn't make the shooting any more justified. This of course should be obvious to everyone, but I still wanted to say it to avoid any kind of straw man argument about me making a justification to shooting or suppositions that it was wrong not to give the money or something like that.

(And look, it still happened This is me faking surprised: )

[mistermack]

Gallstones, your Vet was a moron.
If he'd had a can of bear pepper spray, he would have been safer.
I've said before that a bullet won't stop a grizzly. That obviously applies to black bears as well.
Proper spray does.

[Gallstones]

Gallstones, your Vet was a moron.
If he'd had a can of bear pepper spray, he would have been safer.
I've said before that a bullet won't stop a grizzly. That obviously applies to black bears as well.
Proper spray does.

Let's see, firing bullets at it didn't faze it but pepper spray, which could blow back on the moron depending on the direction of the breeze, never mind that the moron would have had to be well within no escape proximity to use the spray, would have prevented an attack.

Nope, I don't see the sense in that.

Tell you what, you come walk with me. You get to carry your bear spray and I will carry a gun.
I will not interfere in your use of the spray and will not shoot the bear if it goes after you.
If it goes after me I get to shoot it.

Bullets stop grizzlies and black bears all the time.
It what we call bear hunting in these parts.
It was the moron's bullets that stopped the black bear.

[mistermack]

Let's see, firing bullets at it didn't faze it but pepper spray, which could blow back on the moron depending on the direction of the breeze, never mind that the moron would have had to be well within no escape proximity to use the spray, would have prevented an attack.

Nope, I don't see the sense in that.

That's because you are ignorant of the facts. Nobody has EVER been killed by a bear, when they have been able to spray the bear. ( with proper bear spray, not the human version ).
Plenty of people have shot bears and still been killed.
An inconvenient truth?

[Robert_S]

Gallstones, your Vet was a moron.
If he'd had a can of bear pepper spray, he would have been safer.
I've said before that a bullet won't stop a grizzly. That obviously applies to black bears as well.
Proper spray does.

Obviously? There is a considerable difference between a black bear and a grizzly.

You've just read an anecdote about a man killing a bear with a gun that presumably fires bullets, then responded by saying that a bullet won't stop a black bear.

[mistermack]

Gallstones, your Vet was a moron.
If he'd had a can of bear pepper spray, he would have been safer.
I've said before that a bullet won't stop a grizzly. That obviously applies to black bears as well.
Proper spray does.

Obviously? There is a considerable difference between a black bear and a grizzly.

You've just read an anecdote about a man killing a bear with a gun that presumably fires bullets, then responded by saying that a bullet won't stop a black bear.

Yeh, but read it again, and he shot it but it didn't stop it.
I said A bullet.

[Robert_S]

Gallstones, your Vet was a moron.
If he'd had a can of bear pepper spray, he would have been safer.
I've said before that a bullet won't stop a grizzly. That obviously applies to black bears as well.
Proper spray does.

Obviously? There is a considerable difference between a black bear and a grizzly.

You've just read an anecdote about a man killing a bear with a gun that presumably fires bullets, then responded by saying that a bullet won't stop a black bear.

Yeh, but read it again, and he shot it but it didn't stop it.
I said A bullet.

The second bullet was a bullet.

[mistermack]

Well, A bullet didn't stop it then.

And if your bullet misses, it has even less chance. You can't miss with proper spray.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

[Gallstones]

Gallstones, your Vet was a moron.
If he'd had a can of bear pepper spray, he would have been safer.
I've said before that a bullet won't stop a grizzly. That obviously applies to black bears as well.
Proper spray does.

Obviously? There is a considerable difference between a black bear and a grizzly.

You've just read an anecdote about a man killing a bear with a gun that presumably fires bullets, then responded by saying that a bullet won't stop a black bear.

Yeh, but read it again, and he shot it but it didn't stop it.
I said A bullet.

No, he tried shooting at it, first in the air and then at it's feet. It was undeterred. It continued to stalk him down the trial. He had to shoot it to kill it because it persisted.

[Gallstones]

Well, A bullet didn't stop it then.

And if your bullet misses, it has even less chance. You can't miss with proper spray.

Yes you can miss with pepper spray--if you are downwind.