Who here is on Timonen's side?

[Twoflower]

He did a great deal of shooting and video editing on his own--a virtual "one man army," as he put it--and saved the foundation a lot of money over the years in question.

Or, uh, a two-man army - the other one of whom was a volunteer using his own time and equipment and resources to travel, shoot, and edit video footage.

no wonder he finally cracked, having to spend all that time with Josh.

[Jason]

He did a great deal of shooting and video editing on his own--a virtual "one man army," as he put it--and saved the foundation a lot of money over the years in question.

Oh come on! This sentence is ripe for gay parody. I'm disappointed.

[Mysturji]

When is the court case BTW?

You can check for up-to-date news on the site Josh started to solicit donations for poor widdle him!

That would mean adding it to my "favourites".

[Ronja]

Personally I have no real idea how the business dealings went between the two of them. Dawkins is I am sure quite capable of naivety and carelessness in such things. I don't in any case have any interest in digging around for whatever 'evidence' there is either way. Life is too short and the courts will decide in due course anyway.

Most people here feel the way they do because of the way the forum and the community around it was ripped out of the web site so unceremoniously, insensitively and crudely. That is the root cause of much of the ill feeling I suspect.

When you treat a group of people the way Josh treated the forum and community around it, you shouldn't expect much in the way of sympathy when something like a lawsuit falls in your lap. Just sayin'.

2 x

I haven't read the whole thread yet (I was out of town from 7 AM to 11 PM yesterday), but these two comments rock.

Rum & Ayaan!

[klr]

You know, a number of us did lots of work gratis for RD ...

"No sympathy here, move along ..."

[lordpasternack]

Hey man - it's completely plausible that Richard might be that senile that he'd forget a deal along the lines of Josh drawing every cent of the proceeds from the store; it's definitely feasible that he knew all along how Josh was spending the proceeds from the store and was cool with it; it's entirely likely that Josh was plunged straight from 'everyone's hero' to he who must not be named - all based on this rather significant sudden misremembering by Richard, which Josh's enemies cynically seized upon to fool batty old Richard into thinking Josh was actually a slimy little bastard who was running off with his money. Yeah - RDFRS knew all along how Josh was spending the money, and how Richard was fine with it - and they connived together to catch Richard during a rather profound senior moment, and convince him to pursue the case all the way to court, instead of simply throwing Josh quietly under the proverbial bridge.

All that stuff about Josh claiming to Richard that the store was 'squeeking by' is clearly rubbish - and that $30,000 Josh winged RDFRS was a gratuity, out of the kindess of Josh's warm, sweet heart.

I mean, it does clash somewhat with my previous impressions of Josh as an emotionally insecure and immature narcissistic sociopath, superficially charming bare-faced liar, and pathetic excuse manufacturer - but sometimes the truth is just so much stranger than fiction!

[Bella Fortuna]

Err, I think Maureen Josh Chalkers "paul" has abandoned us... boo hoo!

[Pappa]

Josh was logged in for a bit about a week or so ago.

[Feck]

Josh was logged in for a bit about a week or so ago.

Really just checking if all we could talk about was the court case ? or seeing if we still love him ?

[lordpasternack]

Since the beginning, I have had the sneaking suspicion that it was that kind of possibly false representation that generated the lawsuit. Dawkins has to take the position that he knew nothing of Josh's chicanery, otherwise the foundation risks being called to the carpet for defrauding donors and customers of the Store. They would be exposed to a lawsuit (and still might be), or worse - action against their charitable status, or fines or worse.

The reason Josh was running the store via his own company was specifically because Richard couldn't run a store integrated into his not-for-profit venture - and originally RD.net and the true official RDFRS site were one and the same. Richard had various troubles trying to gain charity status for RDFRS, which I'm sure was down to an ongoing interaction between their bureaucracy and his howling, woeful naivety of how the world fucking WORKS. But ultimately, he set up this separate site - RD.net to house all the stuff that the charity commissioners didn't really fancy.

The Store was never directly affiliated with RDFRS, and thus has no direct legal impact on it, with regards to auditing or whatever. And in the event that your interesting drama were true - it would make no sense for Richard to allow Josh to feel so victimised. He's pay for Josh's fucking lawyers in some way. He'd be in on it. I mean, unless Josh is being paid the whole way into acting victimised so we're all convinced that RDFRS wasn't complicit - which is an interesting proposition...

[Bella Fortuna]

Josh was logged in for a bit about a week or so ago.

The real one or the pawiz one?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Josh was logged in for a bit about a week or so ago.

The real, pawiz one or the pawiz one that one-post-womder, Timonen bloke?

[Jason]

Bless thy five wits! Tim's a-cold,--O, do
de, do de, do de. Bless thee from whirlwinds,
star-blasting, and taking! Do poor Tim some
charity, whom the foul fiend vexes: there could I
have him now,--and there,--and there again, and there.

May this excerpt from The Bard's King Lear inspire you all to take pity on poor Tim.

[Robert_S]

Bless thy five wits! Tim's a-cold,--O, do
de, do de, do de. Bless thee from whirlwinds,
star-blasting, and taking! Do poor Tim some
charity, whom the foul fiend vexes: there could I
have him now,--and there,--and there again, and there.

May this excerpt from The Bard's King Lear inspire you all to take pity on poor Tim.

Poor JT, has to go through life as JT.

[Jason]

Bless thy five wits! Tim's a-cold,--O, do
de, do de, do de. Bless thee from whirlwinds,
star-blasting, and taking! Do poor Tim some
charity, whom the foul fiend vexes: there could I
have him now,--and there,--and there again, and there.

May this excerpt from The Bard's King Lear inspire you all to take pity on poor Tim.

Poor JT, has to go through life as JT.

Alas.. but is it irrevocably so?

The world's a stage and all the men and women in it merely players. They have their entrances and their exits and one man ( poor sexist Victorian playwrights.. , or woman I'll add), in his (or her) time may play many parts.

Maybe it's just my blood alcohol level talking, but I feel a certain.. je ne sais quoi.., a feeling of 'let bygones be bygones' for poor Tim.

We all go through metamorphoses through the course of our lives (allusion to Kafka intended), and perhaps Josh has changed. If not, he certainly will. Everyone does, for good or ill, and I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. That's not to say I'm about to grant him pardon for his past sins against the community of freethinkers (I've come to dislike the term atheist for reasons I may expound upon later) ex cathedra (as if I had a chair or pulpit from which to do so authoritatively), as it were - but I'm not willing to wholly condemn him either.

I realize this is at odds with what I've written previously, but a person is allowed to change their mind I believe.

This trial is unfortunate from the standpoint of the freethinking advocate, but necessary from Dawkins POV - he's there to protect the charitable status of his foundation - as Coito Ergo Sum (though I somehow doubt he's been keeping up on the Coito-ing, and should by rights cease to exist ) aptly pointed out earlier.