Moving back to God

[GrahamH]

There was no blind eye turned because until the crimes were exposed nobody for one second thought there was a problem! There were some truly despicable men and women who abused the power inherent in the bureaucracy of the institution to destroy lives, of that there is no doubt. Are my grandmother, father, uncles, aunts, brothers, sisters, friends and enemies to blame for that? Of course not. The failure within the church was human - the religion can be separated from the crimes. Was it so wrong that people placed a high level of trust, prestige and reverence in people who bodily represented the highest ideals of a local community? Is it those peoples' fault that trust was shattered so badly?

Yes, to a degree it was wrong to place such high levels of trust in people because they were 'men of god'. I think that the idea that Jesus guides the faithful to be good, that faith gives a person a 'new heart' is an inherent weakness in the church. This overestimation is directly responsible for the poor treatment of the victims, in their fear of coming forward, and the angry disbelief that met those that did speak up.

[Hermit]

So you cherry pick the nice bits of the NT and skip all of the OT bloodshed and such lines as "Unless a man hate his mother and his father..." and call that "The central tenets".

Who are you to say what the central tenets of catholicism are? And why does your opinion trump that of the inquisition?

Have you heard of the New Covenant?

And more cherry picking. The new testament is not bereft of cruelty either. XC has already pointed one of them out. Here are some more:

• “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you.” [Matthew 11:21-24]
  
  “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come. [Matthew 11:31-32]
  
  But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. [Luke 19:27]

Jesus can be as old-covenantish as the god of the old testament, but you prefer to ignore that. You also ignore that Jesus had no objection to the old covenant: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. [Matthew 5:17-18]

Most of all, though, how can you seek solace in the ritual, spectacle, comfort, and warmth of religion when you know it's based on bullshit? All of it. Will you really get solace from the incense stenchers, the bells, the drone of the incantations, communion preceded by confession, the hats stolen from pagan priests, high mass celebrating events that never happened on dates that were of significance to pre-christian celts? Do you get solace despite the fact that the leaders of those rituals also insist that homosexuality is an abomination, contraception is a mortal sin and divorce impossible? Do you really have no problem ignoring the bits you don't like and embracing the bits coming from the exact same body you are happy with?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Dev, you play well, mate, but somehow I don't think you are quite cut out to be a poe. Nearly there, but you miss the mark. Perhaps it's because we all know it is bollocks but I don't think you'd really convince me of your seriousness even if you had just wandered in from teh webz.

Fun arguing for a bit though.

Bored now. Had I thought you were serious, I would have put a little more effort into it but...

[charlou]

http://www.landoverbaptist.net/PS3.htm

Hiyymer, here's your why not.

[JimC]

In the old days, carriage horses wore blinkers.

Day after day, in their rounds, blinkers constraining their sight.

Then, if they were lucky, at the end of a working life, if they had a kind owner, put out for a while in the paddock to graze freely.

I'm sure many were uneasy for a while...

[devogue]

Dev, you play well, mate, but somehow I don't think you are quite cut out to be a poe. Nearly there, but you miss the mark. Perhaps it's because we all know it is bollocks but I don't think you'd really convince me of your seriousness even if you had just wandered in from teh webz.

Fun arguing for a bit though.

Bored now. Had I thought you were serious, I would have put a little more effort into it but...

Well, we got in to a bit of detail, and we did digress rather far from what I intended here, but I am serious. Seraph's last post is full of excellent truths, but who said belief was rational. FFS, I support Liverpool and I think they'll win the league next year.

[hiyymer]

but who said belief was rational.

or life