Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

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Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by DRSB » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:16 am

For centuries thinkers have assumed that the uniquely human capacity for reasoning has existed to let people reach beyond mere perception and reflex in the search for truth. Rationality allowed a solitary thinker to blaze a path to philosophical, moral and scientific enlightenment.

Now some researchers are suggesting that reason evolved for a completely different purpose: to win arguments. Rationality, by this yardstick (and irrationality too, but we’ll get to that) is nothing more or less than a servant of the hard-wired compulsion to triumph in the debating arena. According to this view, bias, lack of logic and other supposed flaws that pollute the stream of reason are instead social adaptations that enable one group to persuade (and defeat) another. Certitude works, however sharply it may depart from the truth.

The idea, labeled the argumentative theory of reasoning, is the brainchild of French cognitive social scientists, and it has stirred excited discussion (and appalled dissent) among philosophers, political scientists, educators and psychologists, some of whom say it offers profound insight into the way people think and behave. The Journal of Behavioral and Brain Sciences devoted its April issue to debates over the theory, with participants challenging everything from the definition of reason to the origins of verbal communication.

“Reasoning doesn’t have this function of helping us to get better beliefs and make better decisions,” said Hugo Mercier, who is a co-author of the journal article, with Dan Sperber. “It was a purely social phenomenon. It evolved to help us convince others and to be careful when others try to convince us.” Truth and accuracy were beside the point.

Indeed, Mr. Sperber, a member of the Jean-Nicod research institute in Paris, first developed a version of the theory in 2000 to explain why evolution did not make the manifold flaws in reasoning go the way of the prehensile tail and the four-legged stride. Looking at a large body of psychological research, Mr. Sperber wanted to figure out why people persisted in picking out evidence that supported their views and ignored the rest — what is known as confirmation bias — leading them to hold on to a belief doggedly in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence.

Other scholars have previously argued that reasoning and irrationality are both products of evolution. But they usually assume that the purpose of reasoning is to help an individual arrive at the truth, and that irrationality is a kink in that process, a sort of mental myopia. Gary F. Marcus, for example, a psychology professor at New York University and the author of “Kluge: The Haphazard Construction of the Human Mind,” says distortions in reasoning are unintended side effects of blind evolution. They are a result of the way that the brain, a Rube Goldberg mental contraption, processes memory. People are more likely to remember items they are familiar with, like their own beliefs, rather than those of others.

What is revolutionary about argumentative theory is that it presumes that since reason has a different purpose — to win over an opposing group — flawed reasoning is an adaptation in itself, useful for bolstering debating skills.
More of the article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/arts/ ... &src=rechp

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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by mandy » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:03 pm

so basically, being clever aint gonna get you to God.

man will always be dumb compared to his maker. So dont try to show off before the Almighty.
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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by Geoff » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:18 pm

mandy wrote:s So dont try to show off before the Almighty.
Didn't realise it was his turn...
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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by charlou » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:20 pm

mandy wrote:so basically, being clever aint gonna get you to God.

man will always be dumb compared to his maker. So dont try to show off before the Almighty.

Think of "God", "maker" and "Almighty" as metaphors for reality ... for genesis, for evolution, for existence, and this may well be the case.

Are you humble, mandy?
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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by hiyymer » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:36 pm

Deersbee wrote:
Other scholars have previously argued that reasoning and irrationality are both products of evolution. But they usually assume that the purpose of reasoning is to help an individual arrive at the truth, and that irrationality is a kink in that process, a sort of mental myopia. Gary F. Marcus, for example, a psychology professor at New York University and the author of “Kluge: The Haphazard Construction of the Human Mind,” says distortions in reasoning are unintended side effects of blind evolution. They are a result of the way that the brain, a Rube Goldberg mental contraption, processes memory. People are more likely to remember items they are familiar with, like their own beliefs, rather than those of others.
More of the article here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/15/arts/ ... &src=rechp
Strange ideas there. Of what possible value could the "truth" have for the life intentionality of the organism. Rationality is simply the ability to posit logical relationships. They are used by the brain to respond based on the biological value associated with the representations of the possible outcomes That last part is irrational. Scientists and philosophers have this intense bias that there is value in the "truth". The only test of consciousness is whether it works or not to maintain the existence of the particular life form.

Rationality seems to have a role in our social nature. It is a weapon of power. Having to have good reasons. Totems of agreement. With that I would agree with the new theory. But ultimately didn't rationality arise as a form of adaptation. The ability to symbolically imagine alternatives, to "what if", is huge. If the prey gets larger humans invent a better spear in a wink of evolutionary time, while the small brained competitor takes a millennium to evolve larger teeth and claws. Rationality provides our ability to manipulate physical reality as a form of adaptation.

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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by FBM » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:39 pm

Reason, according to Whitehead, has 3 functions:

1) To enable life
2) To enable comfortable life, and
3) To enable a more comfortable life.

Reason is a tool, it is not the answer in itself, nor can it provide it. All rationality-based cosmologies and/or ontologies will never be more than descriptions or approximations. Emotion-based cosmologies and/or ontologies will, of course, be less accurate, though more satisfying for many. The god theory may not be coherent, but we may never rid ourselves of it, because ultimately, rationality itself cannot provide reality.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by Mysturji » Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:51 pm

mandy wrote:so basically, being clever aint gonna get you to God.

man will always be dumb compared to his maker. So dont try to show off before the Almighty.
And there we have a perfect illustration of the OP. :roll:
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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by Tigger » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:03 pm

And he slipped up and used some capital letters too.
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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by FBM » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:22 pm

Tigger wrote:And he slipped up and used some capital letters too.
Again. :eddy:
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by mandy » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:05 pm

charlou wrote:
Think of "God", "maker" and "Almighty" as metaphors for reality ... for genesis, for evolution, for existence, and this may well be the case.

Are you humble, mandy?
well, you gotta do humble dont ya. its the essential requirement.
if i weret humble and asked God, I wouldnt have discovered him.
Creator of everthing is never gonna show himself to no arrogant little sperm product, now is he? why should he?
God is big, i mean super large entity, enourmous, great than everything, bigger than universe; but unforunately for us he hid himself, and it is we who have to seek him out. dont ask me why, he wants it that way. women like i guss, they too like the chase. someone good, hero, a hunk to hunt them down etc etc, you know the rest miss charlou.
maybe God is more feminine that masculine. who knows. Universe does seem to have a touch of female to it.
i personally believe that the Creator asked a female to be Universe's interior designer.


.
Last edited by mandy on Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by Atheist-Lite » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:09 pm

Bunch of howler monkees. :coffee:

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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by Thinking Aloud » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:18 pm

mandy wrote:i personally believe that the Creator asked a female to be Universe's interior designer.
Finally!

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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by Mysturji » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:22 pm

Thinking Aloud wrote:
mandy wrote:i personally believe that the Creator asked a female to be Universe's interior designer.
Finally!
That would explain all the flowers.
Sir Figg Newton wrote:If I have seen further than others, it is only because I am surrounded by midgets.
Cormac wrote:Doom predictors have been with humans right through our history. They are like the proverbial stopped clock - right twice a day, but not due to the efficacy of their prescience.
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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by Atheist-Lite » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:23 pm

Thinking Aloud wrote:
mandy wrote:i personally believe that the Creator asked a female to be Universe's interior designer.
Finally!
Nice wallpaper. :coffee:
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Re: Reason Seen More as Weapon Than Path to Truth

Post by FBM » Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:56 pm

Reason has long since been dismissed as a faculty and, instead, been regarded as a function. Not an innate capacity, but a learned behavior. Some acquire it better than others, as conditioned by both nature and nurture in various mixtures. Mindless instinct is primary, which conditions motivation, and only after that does reason get deployed. Emotion is ontologically prior to reason and it first conditions motivation (intent); reason is most often applied post hoc to codify a conclusion arrived at by non-rational processes.

Probably. ;)
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."

"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."

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