When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

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When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Gawd » Fri May 06, 2011 6:20 am

When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?
When Hyojin Jenny Hwang wrote on Facebook that she was saddened by the sight of young Americans like herself jubilantly cheering Osama bin Laden's death, the angry response was swift, even from friends.

"One friend told me she felt judged for feeling happy," said the 30-year-old mother from New Jersey. "And another one simply unfriended me on Facebook."

As the hours passed, though, and the initial giddiness settled a bit, Hwang, who says she feels strongly that a death should not be celebrated, received messages of support from people similarly unnerved by the scenes of euphoria. Those scenes have included chants of "USA! USA!" at the White House gates and ground zero; signs such as "Obama 1, Osama 0"; or T-shirts now available online, saying "GOT HIM!" and illustrated by a stick figure of a dead bin Laden.

It's one thing to be satisfied that the world's most wanted terrorist has been killed by a U.S. Navy SEAL unit in Pakistan. But where does satisfaction end and gloating begin? It's a question being posed online by ordinary Americans, religious figures, various commentators and several 9/11 widows. And it's bound to be on President Barack Obama's mind as he treads that fine line in a visit Thursday to ground zero.

....

Kristen Breitweiser said they brought back images of bin Laden supporters celebrating in the streets on that infamous day in 2001.

"Forgive me, but I don't want to watch uncorked champagne spill onto hallowed ground where thousands were murdered in cold blood," she wrote Monday on The Huffington Post. "And it breaks my heart to witness young Americans cheer any death — even the death of a horrible, evil, murderous person — like it is some raucous tailgate party on a college campus. Why are we not somber?"

Another 9/11 widow, Marian Fontana, wrote on Salon of how her son, Aidan, who was 5 when his father died, had gone to school on Monday and called at lunchtime, wanting to come home.

"Everyone is talking about bin Laden. In every class, they are happy he is dead, but I don't feel happy," she said he told her.

And Deena Burnett Bailey, of Little Rock, Ark., who lost her husband Tom Burnett, said she was struggling with how to talk to her teens about bin Laden's death.
"To say that I'm happy that he was killed just seems odd, and it goes against my Christian faith," she said. "The girls and I were talking about it. ... One of them said, 'What can we say, Mom? We can't say praise the Lord, he's dead.' I said, 'I know. You just have to know that someone else made that decision, and that he will now stand before judgment for having killed so many people.'"

Online, some Americans said they saw absolutely nothing wrong with Sunday's outpouring.

"If you cannot cheer about the demise of a truly wicked man who took so much from us, what do you celebrate?" asked Edward Hannigan, 45, of Chico Hills, Calif., editor of an online music magazine, on Facebook. In another post, he added: "I'm damn happy he's dead. And on top of that, I hope it hurt. A lot."

But Donna Guhr, a waitress in Crestone, Colo., refused to cheer. "Out of ALL the people here in my town I've spoken with I only know two people who agree with the celebrating," she wrote, also on Facebook. "Gives me hope."

In a follow-up phone interview, Guhr, 44, said she was concerned about scenes of the jubilation inciting retaliatory attacks. "He had a lot of followers, and they're not getting any happier with us," she said of bin Laden.

She added that the celebrations made her recall a quote attributed to Gandhi: "An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

......
Hmmmm, remind me to throw a big party when George Bush gets killed. An eye for an eye indeed.
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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by AshtonBlack » Fri May 06, 2011 6:30 am

I am very uncomfortable with gloating over any murder. Whether it's "justice" is another debate.

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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by charlou » Fri May 06, 2011 6:34 am

Good article. Thanks for posting, Gawd.
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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Animavore » Fri May 06, 2011 6:46 am

I find it distasteful, personally. But it is neither ok nor not ok.
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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Ayaan » Fri May 06, 2011 6:47 am

Celebrating any death or gloating over it has always seemed wrong to me. As many awful things as Osama may have done or directed to be done, I still can't bring myself to rejoice in the death of a fellow human being.
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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by charlou » Fri May 06, 2011 6:57 am

I'm ambivalent about the ethics of killing osama (less so the way it was carried out, without trial). I don't know if how people have reacted/are reacting to his death is a separate issue, either. There's certainly a moblike atmosphere about the jubilation and gloating that is unpleasant and unsettling.
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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Rum » Fri May 06, 2011 7:10 am

Some of the scenes in NY and elsewhere after the news broke reminded me of nothing so much as scenes we see in the so called 'Arab Street' of mobs burning flags or cheering after some victory or other of one of their Jihaddi heroes. Both are equally repugnant.

On the other hand they are both equally understandable.

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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Feck » Fri May 06, 2011 7:52 am

Why is it called Ground Zero ? (saw Obama there in the news ) .

I find it annoying (to say the least !)


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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Robert_S » Fri May 06, 2011 8:51 am

I am rather happy that he's dead, but not in a gloating way. More in a "well, that part's finally over" way.
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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Fri May 06, 2011 9:08 am

One should certainly gloat over the demise of one's enemy. Further, one should cackle and caper with undisguised glee.

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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by JimC » Fri May 06, 2011 9:20 am

Sow the breeze, reap the whirlwind...

But joy at an enemy's death is a dangerous emotion, feeding on the old, dark hominid urge to group violence...

When truly needed, kill with little emotion other than reluctance warring with duty...
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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Magicziggy » Fri May 06, 2011 9:24 am

It's totally to be expected that some people gloat, even on this forum. Personally, I've found much of the reaction rather disturbing and have found myself looking at Americans in a rather negative light.

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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Feck » Fri May 06, 2011 9:26 am

Magicziggy wrote:It's totally to be expected that some people gloat, even on this forum. Personally, I've found much of the reaction rather disturbing and have found myself looking at Americans in a rather negative light.
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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by JimC » Fri May 06, 2011 9:27 am

Magicziggy wrote:It's totally to be expected that some people gloat, even on this forum. Personally, I've found much of the reaction rather disturbing and have found myself looking at Americans in a rather negative light.
Actually, relatively few Americans on Ratz have truly gloated. Most are pleased on one level, as they remember the events of nearly 10 years ago, but dismayed by aspects of the operation, and not inclined to gloat, at least as I'd define gloating.

Look at some intelligent and nuanced posts from CES on the issue...
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Re: When a terrorist dies, is it OK to gloat?

Post by Magicziggy » Fri May 06, 2011 9:36 am

JimC wrote:
Magicziggy wrote:It's totally to be expected that some people gloat, even on this forum. Personally, I've found much of the reaction rather disturbing and have found myself looking at Americans in a rather negative light.
Actually, relatively few Americans on Ratz have truly gloated. Most are pleased on one level, as they remember the events of nearly 10 years ago, but dismayed by aspects of the operation, and not inclined to gloat, at least as I'd define gloating.

Look at some intelligent and nuanced posts from CES on the issue...
I said "some people". There is also some intelligent thinking. And I think PZ Myers on his blog a few days ago summed it up quite nicely.
PZ Myers wrote:While it's necessary to stop terrorists, sometimes with violence, it is barbarous to gloat over the execution of an enemy. I find the chanting crowds cheering over the corpse disturbing, and the triumphal tone of our leaders is misplaced. We killed hundreds of thousands of civilians and threw away trillions of dollars, and our trophy is the bloody corpse of one old man? There's no victory in that.

Anyway, I was surprised to find even one outwardly racist contributor to this forum. But that is another matter.

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