Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post Reply
User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 41063
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Svartalf » Wed May 04, 2011 3:51 pm

Pappa wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:We have the United States invading a foreign country without notice or permission to assassinate someone, and instead of taking the unarmed person into custody, he was summarily executed.
That's normal practice, isn't it?
Normal practice would have been to evacuate the area and classify the thing for 50 years and let people learn the truth then. Letting Pakistan know a black op they hadn't agreed on was conducted on their territory was, at best, a diplomatic mistake.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

Coito ergo sum
Posts: 32040
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed May 04, 2011 3:51 pm

Ian wrote:I really don't care about the definition of "resistance". I doubt Bin Laden had been sitting in a chair twiddling his thumbs while the SEALs were helicoptering in and taking down other people in his compound before arriving at his room. So I don't care about the details of whether he was holding a gun or not. If the guy/s who finally shot saw reason to fire, then I won't question it.
What if they had him captured, and just executed him?

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 41063
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Svartalf » Wed May 04, 2011 3:55 pm

They probably tried, but he likely was on the verge of raising too large a racket for them to handle, or trying to get a weapon...
Do you imagine what the PR would have been if Obama had made a Guantanamo Address to celebrate ibn ladin being put there?
I'm pretty sure the team had orders to take him alive if at all possible.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

Coito ergo sum
Posts: 32040
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed May 04, 2011 3:58 pm

What makes you pretty sure about that?

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 41063
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Svartalf » Wed May 04, 2011 4:03 pm

The fact the guy was more useful alive in gitmo than dead.
Dead, he's a martyr, and his slaying an insult that demands to be avenged.
Plus, as I said, the killing was great PR, but having him in gitmo and staging a trial would have been even greater.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

Coito ergo sum
Posts: 32040
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed May 04, 2011 4:18 pm

Svartalf wrote:The fact the guy was more useful alive in gitmo than dead.
Dead, he's a martyr, and his slaying an insult that demands to be avenged.
Plus, as I said, the killing was great PR, but having him in gitmo and staging a trial would have been even greater.
Killing him avoids the long, drawn-out show trial, that Osama would have used as a platform and a recruiting tool. I find the idea that the Obama administration would have preferred to have alive to be unpersuasive. If he was alive, he couldn't be held in Gitmo without criticism that Obama was now using the very prison that he lambasted and originally wanted to shut down. If he brought him the US, he's be excoriated for not leaving him in Gitmo. If he sought to try him in a military court, he'd be a hypocrite since he and his administration wanted these folks tried in Federal court in NYC. And, if he brought him to NYC to be tried in federal criminal court, he'd be excoriated as soft on terrorism.

The only way to get the glory and minimize the criticism is to kill him and dump him in the ocean.

User avatar
Ian
Mr Incredible
Posts: 16975
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Ian » Wed May 04, 2011 4:20 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Ian wrote:I really don't care about the definition of "resistance". I doubt Bin Laden had been sitting in a chair twiddling his thumbs while the SEALs were helicoptering in and taking down other people in his compound before arriving at his room. So I don't care about the details of whether he was holding a gun or not. If the guy/s who finally shot saw reason to fire, then I won't question it.
What if they had him captured, and just executed him?
In Bin Laden's case, that's fine as long as their mission orders allowed it. I don't care if he was summarily shot or summarily drawn and quartered.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed May 04, 2011 4:24 pm

charlou wrote:His wife got in the way .. and was shot in the leg. Then he was shot in the head. Twice.


My impression (not just from this example) is that it doesn't matter how much 'planning' goes into setting this kind of thing into motion on the one side, the responses of the other side will always render 'planning' obsolete at the point of contact.
"No battle plan survives first contact with the enemy." :read:
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed May 04, 2011 4:25 pm

Ian wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Ian wrote:I really don't care about the definition of "resistance". I doubt Bin Laden had been sitting in a chair twiddling his thumbs while the SEALs were helicoptering in and taking down other people in his compound before arriving at his room. So I don't care about the details of whether he was holding a gun or not. If the guy/s who finally shot saw reason to fire, then I won't question it.
What if they had him captured, and just executed him?
In Bin Laden's case, that's fine as long as their mission orders allowed it. I don't care if he was summarily shot or summarily drawn and quartered.
The military has gotten soft since *I* was active. :cranky:
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
Pappa
Non-Practicing Anarchist
Non-Practicing Anarchist
Posts: 56488
Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:42 am
About me: I am sacrificing a turnip as I type.
Location: Le sud du Pays de Galles.
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Pappa » Wed May 04, 2011 4:33 pm

Interesting take on the Obama administration's stance on assassination:

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn ... ssinations

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Hermit » Wed May 04, 2011 4:39 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Ian wrote:I really don't care about the definition of "resistance". I doubt Bin Laden had been sitting in a chair twiddling his thumbs while the SEALs were helicoptering in and taking down other people in his compound before arriving at his room. So I don't care about the details of whether he was holding a gun or not. If the guy/s who finally shot saw reason to fire, then I won't question it.
What if they had him captured, and just executed him?
Isn't that what happened?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 41063
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Svartalf » Wed May 04, 2011 4:47 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
Ian wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Ian wrote:I really don't care about the definition of "resistance". I doubt Bin Laden had been sitting in a chair twiddling his thumbs while the SEALs were helicoptering in and taking down other people in his compound before arriving at his room. So I don't care about the details of whether he was holding a gun or not. If the guy/s who finally shot saw reason to fire, then I won't question it.
What if they had him captured, and just executed him?
In Bin Laden's case, that's fine as long as their mission orders allowed it. I don't care if he was summarily shot or summarily drawn and quartered.
The military has gotten soft since *I* was active. :cranky:
go get keelhauled for your constitutional you brown water mariner :stoned:
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed May 04, 2011 4:56 pm

My water is red, not brown. :lay:
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
Ian
Mr Incredible
Posts: 16975
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 6:42 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Ian » Wed May 04, 2011 4:58 pm

Seraph wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Ian wrote:I really don't care about the definition of "resistance". I doubt Bin Laden had been sitting in a chair twiddling his thumbs while the SEALs were helicoptering in and taking down other people in his compound before arriving at his room. So I don't care about the details of whether he was holding a gun or not. If the guy/s who finally shot saw reason to fire, then I won't question it.
What if they had him captured, and just executed him?
Isn't that what happened?
Few people outside of the DEVGRU (aka SEAL Team Six) team who were there know the specifics. Nobody here knows, that's for sure.

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 41063
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Osama bin Laden: Dead

Post by Svartalf » Wed May 04, 2011 4:59 pm

and the skay ain't blue, it's cyan
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests