Usury

[Atheist-Lite]

Seems to be a religious conquest of what should really be a secular issue. Isn't it time to take the moral high ground away from the smug religous corner?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usury

I don't like the way it makes money pop out of thin air myself. There is something very wrong with asking for money whilst owning the printing press.

[Bella Fortuna]

"Do you ever lend money?"

"Usury..."

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Do you ever rend money?"

"Usury..."

[Atheist-Lite]

I always kept the houses seperate from a finite and unexpanding money supply on the monopoly board. What's the alternative? Print more houses?

[Coito ergo sum]

Just think, without usury, we'd all just pay cash for things.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Just think, without usury, we'd all just pay cash for things.

I recently entered into my first such contract in over ten years.

[Atheist-Lite]

Just think, without usury, we'd all just pay cash for things.

It's a good idea but dumb saps like their money.

[KingofthePaupers]

Crumple: I don't like the way it makes money pop out of thin air myself.
Jct: It's not money that pops out of thin air, it's debt. Borrow $100 at a bank in your mort-gage death-gamb le and walk around with it for a year and when you return, you still have the same $100 but you owe $110. They foreclose and take your pledged stuff. Or you can find someone else who took out a mort-gage and win $10 from them so you survive your death-gamble and the bank forecloses on the loser. See "How banks create money" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WefdeNLup3M and "Shift B Inflation from Turmel's Miracle Equation exposes Big Lie of Economics" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqlthpY94cQ

[egbert]

Just think, without usury, we'd all just pay cash for things.

And that would be the end of the Banksters, your favourite Capitalists! Sheesh, they'd actually have to EARN those bonuses, poor things. Whose hemorrhoids would you then worship ?

[Coito ergo sum]

Just think, without usury, we'd all just pay cash for things.

And that would be the end of the Banksters, your favourite Capitalists! Sheesh, they'd actually have to EARN those bonuses, poor things. Whose hemorrhoids would you then worship ?

Where have you ever heard me say anything positive about banks?

[egbert]

Where have you ever heard me say anything positive about banks?

As a fanatical defender of Capitalism, are you suggesting BANKS are NOT
Capitalistic?

[Coito ergo sum]

Where have you ever heard me say anything positive about banks?

As a fanatical defender of Capitalism, are you suggesting BANKS are NOT
Capitalistic?

No. I'm not suggesting that at all... Banks can be capitalistic, or not. If Banks are owned and controlled by the State, then they're not capitalistic. If banks are generally privately held, then they would be capitalistic.

Are you suggestion that BANKS are ALWAYS capitalistic? They aren't. Socialized banks are owned by the government, like the "means of production" of other goods and services. If the "means of production" of banking and financial services are owned primarily by the State, the the banks would be "socialistic," not capitalistic.

Moreover, Bella, I'm not a "fanatical" defender of capitalism. I have stated, every time the topic comes up, that I am in favor of stringent regulations on capital and markets. I am in favor of capitalism generally, but I have never suggested that it is the end-all-be-all of human existence, and I have never suggested it should be unrestrained.

Why must anyone who dares to suggest that socialism isn't better than capitalism, by and large, which is all I typically argue, be deemed a "fanatic?" Are you a "fanatical defender of socialism," Bella? Sure, I think regulated capitalism is a preferable system than the alternatives presented so far. If someone wants to cogently present an alternative that improves the situation, I'm all ears. Sometimes, however, I have a sneaking suspicion that most people who laud socialism, or lambaste capitalism, really have not one damn clue what either system is all about - they just think, "socialism means cushy nicey-nice everyone treated equally and everyone is cared for" and "capitalism is meany mean everyone for him or herself." That's just how some people come across though...

[Atheist-Lite]

Regulation is micro-management in both socialism and capatlism. The difference is in socialism it is micro-managment of the common man in the interests of the few whereas in capatlism it is micro-management of the common man in the interests of the few.

[Coito ergo sum]

Regulation is micro-management in both socialism and capatlism. The difference is in socialism it is micro-managment of the common man in the interests of the few whereas in capatlism it is micro-management of the common man in the interests of the few.

Socialism is State ownership of the means of production and often real property.

Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production and property.

Whether regulation is in the interests of the few depends on the type of government in place. As far as I can tell, the best we can do is have a representative republic that distributes power as widely as possible, containing sufficient checks and balances to prevent despotism. There is no perfect system, and there are many different ways to structure a government, and it appears that no matter we do, we haven't figured out how to prevent the consolidation of power in the hands of those "few."