lol @ British law enforcement

[Coito ergo sum]

US states range from a low of 0.8 per hundred thousand (New Hampshire) and 1.1 (Hawaii and Vermont) to 8.7 (New Mexico). For obvious reasons, New Mexico, bordering on Mexico....has its murder rate jacked way the fuck up for reasons not related to American culture.

The drug trade is "not related to American culture"? Granted it's not related to gun regulation.

I meant that the reason New Mexico's rate is high is because of its proximity to Mexico, which has a murder rate of like 22 per hundred thousand.

[Feck]

US states range from a low of 0.8 per hundred thousand (New Hampshire) and 1.1 (Hawaii and Vermont) to 8.7 (New Mexico). For obvious reasons, New Mexico, bordering on Mexico....has its murder rate jacked way the fuck up for reasons not related to American culture.

The drug trade is "not related to American culture"? Granted it's not related to gun regulation.

I meant that the reason New Mexico's rate is high is because of its proximity to Mexico, which has a murder rate of like 22 per hundred thousand.

With guns bought in Texas

[Wumbologist]

US states range from a low of 0.8 per hundred thousand (New Hampshire) and 1.1 (Hawaii and Vermont) to 8.7 (New Mexico). For obvious reasons, New Mexico, bordering on Mexico....has its murder rate jacked way the fuck up for reasons not related to American culture.

The drug trade is "not related to American culture"? Granted it's not related to gun regulation.

I meant that the reason New Mexico's rate is high is because of its proximity to Mexico, which has a murder rate of like 22 per hundred thousand.

With guns bought in Texas

And fully automatic, military issue weapons brought up from South America.

[Coito ergo sum]

That seems to be the problem

That's the problem anywhere you go. Home invasions can and do turn sour. No amount of risk to my life is justifiable in the context of a home invasion. If I can stop a home invader without violence and without risking my own life, that's great and definitely a desirable outcome. But I'm not going to stick my neck out in some misguided attempt to be Mr. Nice Home Invasion Victim. If they present a threat, they'll be treated accordingly.

A home invader, in my view, is always presenting a threat. They're already invading your personal space. They're already invading your privacy. The police aren't even allowed to enter one's home without cause - and here we have a home invader off the street, doing what those hired by us to serve and protect are not privileged to do. There is no reliable way to ascertain their intention for burgling the home. Are they a rapist or a murderer? What are they after? Would it even be helpful if you asked them and they told you? What proof is necessary to show their reasonable benignity, other than their exit posthaste?

I took measures needed to protect my 'Family ' (Told the GF to hold the dog and make sure he didn't make a noise ) while I cut off their escape route .In the UK the possibility of facing a gun does not occur ,in the US it would be likely , I would have had a gun in my hand if I had seen a gun in theirs I would have killed them both in a heart beat , Now please explain how that would have been a better outcome ? Please explain how I or my GF (or more importantly my Dog ) would have more safe in the US than in the UK ? Everything involving firearms is life and Death , should I have killed them just in case ?

Where did I make comparisons of which country is better than the other? That's your guys' shtick, not mine. I don't care whether Britain is "better" than the US. I simply stated that if someone is breaking into my home in the middle of the night, and my wife and child are in the house, they are a threat. I have no idea what they want, why they're there or anything else about them. If they needed help, they could have rung the doorbell, that's for sure. So, I am reasonable, I think, in assuming they are not coming to me for benign purposes. I have a bat, and I would hit them with it - hard - in the head. I don't own a gun.

[Coito ergo sum]

US states range from a low of 0.8 per hundred thousand (New Hampshire) and 1.1 (Hawaii and Vermont) to 8.7 (New Mexico). For obvious reasons, New Mexico, bordering on Mexico....has its murder rate jacked way the fuck up for reasons not related to American culture.

The drug trade is "not related to American culture"? Granted it's not related to gun regulation.

I meant that the reason New Mexico's rate is high is because of its proximity to Mexico, which has a murder rate of like 22 per hundred thousand.

With guns bought in Texas

You really don't know what you're talking about.

[Feck]

US states range from a low of 0.8 per hundred thousand (New Hampshire) and 1.1 (Hawaii and Vermont) to 8.7 (New Mexico). For obvious reasons, New Mexico, bordering on Mexico....has its murder rate jacked way the fuck up for reasons not related to American culture.

The drug trade is "not related to American culture"? Granted it's not related to gun regulation.

I meant that the reason New Mexico's rate is high is because of its proximity to Mexico, which has a murder rate of like 22 per hundred thousand.

With guns bought in Texas

You really don't know what you're talking about.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 05963.html

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/13/t ... as-report/
an apology ?

[Pappa]

It seems, based on the article I posted above, that if someone invades your home and you have a cricket bat, you can strike first without hesitation, and kill them with it and you likely won't even be prosecuted. If, however, they are running away and you shoot them in the back, or you have already plainly subdued them and you continue to act out in an unneeded fashion, then you will be prosecuted.

The tone of the article seem to suggest they are quoting the most extreme examples, and some of the the examples give go against what I understood was usually defined as "reasonable force", though I'm willing to admit I may be quite wrong.

[Wumbologist]

US states range from a low of 0.8 per hundred thousand (New Hampshire) and 1.1 (Hawaii and Vermont) to 8.7 (New Mexico). For obvious reasons, New Mexico, bordering on Mexico....has its murder rate jacked way the fuck up for reasons not related to American culture.

The drug trade is "not related to American culture"? Granted it's not related to gun regulation.

I meant that the reason New Mexico's rate is high is because of its proximity to Mexico, which has a murder rate of like 22 per hundred thousand.

With guns bought in Texas

You really don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah. I wouldn't exactly trust the word of any Mexican source on the issue of American guns in Mexico, either. A lot of news regarding the violence is hyped up for maximum dramatic effect. Here's an example:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30217341/ns ... -americas/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... e-gun.html

The news media reported from Mexican accounts of the seizure, which claim that a .50 caliber anti-aircraft gun was found. Yet, in every picture, the "big scary gun" seen is actually a .30 caliber. NOT capable of penetrating armor at 5,000 feet, and not exactly well-suited to an anti-aircraft role. Now I'm sure a Mexican police commander is plenty capable of discerning the difference between a .50BMG and a .30 caliber:



The big one is a .50BMG, the next largest is a 30-06 and the one after that is a 7.62x51. Those two are the most common loadings for the M1919 shown in those news articles, but .30 caliber isn't as scary when everyone knows that .50BMG is a heat-seeking armor-piercing explosive tipped bunker busting anti-aircraft murdergun round.

[Feck]

hey ok the Washington post is not a reliable news source .I'm sorry, it was a flippant comment , I avoided the left wing articles that claimed US complicity in gun running to Mexico if favour of what I thought were more measured articles . And I AM well aware Mexico is not just a fucked up mess just because of Texan gun dealers .

[Wumbologist]

hey ok the Washington post is not a reliable news source .I'm sorry, it was a flippant comment , I avoided the left wing articles that claimed US complicity in gun running to Mexico if favour of what I thought were more measured articles . And I AM well aware Mexico is not just a fucked up mess just because of Texan gun dealers .

And I don't disagree that American guns do end up in Mexico. But, while I do think that it needs to be stopped and that everyone sending guns to Mexico from the US needs to be severely punished, I don't think that cutting off the supply of American guns into Mexico would do anything to curb the violence. The cartels have a lot of resources and a lot of power, and already get most of their hardware elsewhere. As far as the news media, none of them have a particularly good track record on the issue.

[Coito ergo sum]

[
With guns bought in Texas

You really don't know what you're talking about.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 05963.html

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/12/13/t ... as-report/
an apology ?

If you're offering one, I'll accept it.

The first article does not say that New Mexicans are buying guns in Texas, or that the New Mexican murder rate is high because people purchase guns in Texas. It's an article about a single Houston area gun retailer who is "under investigation" for allegedly selling illegal guns which landed in the hands of Mexican drug cartels. According to the article you posted, the gun retailer claims to have been following ATF instructions. Moreover, the government said that the guns were allegedly found IN MEXICO - not in New Mexico. New Mexico isn't Mexico.

Similarly, the second article has nothing to do with New Mexico, but rather is about guns found IN MEXICO.

Moreover, simply alleging that there are some gun dealers in Texas selling guns that wind up in the hands of Mexican drug cartels says nothing at all about the proportion of Mexico's guns that are purchased from the States. Here's an article that shows that based on what we know now, the vast majority of weapons used in Mexican crimes DO NOT come from the US, only about 17% come from the US. http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110209 ... rcent-myth

[Coito ergo sum]

hey ok the Washington post is not a reliable news source .I'm sorry, it was a flippant comment , I avoided the left wing articles that claimed US complicity in gun running to Mexico if favour of what I thought were more measured articles . And I AM well aware Mexico is not just a fucked up mess just because of Texan gun dealers .

The Washington Post is an o.k. source - the articles you posted just didn't stand for the proposition you offered them for. At all.

[Feck]

"One can buy these types of weapons on the international arms market, but one pays a premium for such guns and it is cheaper and easier to simply buy them in the United States or South America and smuggle them into Mexico. In fact, there is an entire cottage industry that has developed to smuggle such weapons, and not all the customers are cartel hit men. There are many Mexican citizens who own guns in calibers such as .45, 9 mm, .40 and .44 magnum for self-defense — even though such guns are illegal in Mexico.

Read more: Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth | STRATFOR
I haz issue with a inteligence web sight that cant speel Calibre or defence ?

I did apologise for my flippant remark , which is not entirely untrue

[Coito ergo sum]

"One can buy these types of weapons on the international arms market, but one pays a premium for such guns and it is cheaper and easier to simply buy them in the United States or South America and smuggle them into Mexico. In fact, there is an entire cottage industry that has developed to smuggle such weapons, and not all the customers are cartel hit men. There are many Mexican citizens who own guns in calibers such as .45, 9 mm, .40 and .44 magnum for self-defense — even though such guns are illegal in Mexico.

Read more: Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth | STRATFOR
I haz issue with a inteligence web sight that cant speel Calibre or defence ?

I did apologise for my flippant remark , which is not entirely untrue

American English has different spellings than British English.

And, again - isolating that quote, without understanding that 83% of guns in Mexico apparently come from places other than the US (let alone Texas) is deceptive.

Your articles were not untrue - they were inapplicable to the issue to which you posted them as a response.

[Wumbologist]

"One can buy these types of weapons on the international arms market, but one pays a premium for such guns and it is cheaper and easier to simply buy them in the United States or South America and smuggle them into Mexico. In fact, there is an entire cottage industry that has developed to smuggle such weapons, and not all the customers are cartel hit men. There are many Mexican citizens who own guns in calibers such as .45, 9 mm, .40 and .44 magnum for self-defense — even though such guns are illegal in Mexico.

Read more: Mexico's Gun Supply and the 90 Percent Myth | STRATFOR
I haz issue with a inteligence web sight that cant speel Calibre or defence ?

I did apologise for my flippant remark , which is not entirely untrue

American English has different spellings than British English.

And, again - isolating that quote, without understanding that 83% of guns in Mexico apparently come from places other than the US (let alone Texas) is deceptive.

Your articles were not untrue - they were inapplicable to the issue to which you posted them as a response.

And the majority of guns that come from sources outside the US are far more dangerous. Small caliber semi-automatic rifles and handguns are a drop in the bucket compared to full-auto assault rifles and light machine guns, grenades of every description, RPG's....