lol @ American law enforcement

[Gallstones]

Better a sheep than a parasite on society.

This doesn't make any sense.

[MrJonno]

Better a sheep than a parasite on society.

This doesn't make any sense.

Sheep contribute to society even if its just as wool or meat libertarians just try to destory it

[hadespussercats]

There's being able to walk after dark in well-populated, well-lit areas with plenty of the proverbial 'eyes-on-the-street-- it's another to brazenly stroll through an obviously decrepit neighborhood drunk, in the wee hours of the morning, oblivious to danger. I'm not saying it's not a shame that these sorts of things happen, but yes, I think poor common sense was a factor in what happened to these fellows.

For a single women or possible a single man there are areas in the UK I probably wouldnt risk it, but 2 fit young men get real that just wouldnt be in their experience. There simply isnt anywhere that dangerous. A mugger isnt going to risk it even with a knife on 2 people so you are going to have to run into an entire gang out for trouble which could happen but is very very unlikely. More likely to trip over the pavement and break your neck

What? You are on the cracky-crack. Two "fit young men" who are drunk are about as likely to be victimized as anyone else-- as these guys found out. I'm unsure why you think the presence of two penises ought to have made the couple bullet-proof.

[hadespussercats]

That's a rather sweeping approach to a very large gamut of possible ailments. Thirty percent of Americans deal with depression-- should none of them be allowed to drive? And what about people who have mental illnesses that are controlled or in remission? Don't they have civil rights?

There are plenty of people with mental illness who aren't violent and pose no danger to society. Attitudes like yours are the reason many of them are afraid to come out about their problems and seek treatment.

Depends on the degree of mental illness (or any other illness) on whether they should be able to drive . Thats the current law in the UK driving is something you have to prove you are competent to do and are required to report any illness that may affect your ability to do so (The state/society determines if you are fit to drive not you). Wife was suffering from an extremely serious illness which required daily medical visits from nurses/shrinks etc and it would have been a complete irresponsibility by me as a human being never mind a husband to let her anywhere near a car.

No idea what the laws are like in the US but I would hope they would be similar, through I remember some TV program where a US driver had a heart attack and hit a policeman car causing him to have serious burns. The driver was criminally charge and convicted as he already knew he had a serious heart problem and another attack was likely. II support the principle but not sure what the point is in putting seriously ill people in jail).

If depression can be medically or otherwise controlled then I don't see a problem in them driving but thats a doctor/government/society decision not theirs

You said you didn't think anyone with a mental illness should be allowed to drive. I'm glad you didn't mean that, and that you recognize nuances of degree. Still, there's probably a reason you didn't employ that sense of nuance in your earlier statement. Sweeping generalizations promote intolerance.

[Coito ergo sum]

How do you figure?

You weren't there, don't really know, and accuse them straight of being druggies whose deal went wrong.

Obviously, the people who wrote the article weren't there, didn't really know, and accused them straight of going to an IHOP. I think that in and of itself is a worse indictment than saying they went there to buy weed.

But, I never said any deal went wrong. They might have been jacked by some asshat "making his bones" in a gang, who knows? It's not "blaming the victim" to say they probably went there for drugs. Well, maybe in your mind it is, if you think going to buy weed means it's somewhat justified that they died. I don't.

And, of course, I said "probably" - maybe they were just directionally challenged clowns who got hammered in the Gator Bar and started wandering around for miles looking for an IHOP that sticks out like sore thumb and whose address is available on any cell phone these days.

[MrJonno]

You said you didn't think anyone with a mental illness should be allowed to drive. I'm glad you didn't mean that, and that you recognize nuances of degree. Still, there's probably a reason you didn't employ that sense of nuance in your earlier statement. Sweeping generalizations promote intolerance.

It was a mistake for me to have said any mental illness and i apologise for any offence

[Gallstones]

There's being able to walk after dark in well-populated, well-lit areas with plenty of the proverbial 'eyes-on-the-street-- it's another to brazenly stroll through an obviously decrepit neighborhood drunk, in the wee hours of the morning, oblivious to danger. I'm not saying it's not a shame that these sorts of things happen, but yes, I think poor common sense was a factor in what happened to these fellows.

For a single women or possible a single man there are areas in the UK I probably wouldnt risk it, but 2 fit young men get real that just wouldnt be in their experience. There simply isnt anywhere that dangerous. A mugger isnt going to risk it even with a knife on 2 people so you are going to have to run into an entire gang out for trouble which could happen but is very very unlikely. More likely to trip over the pavement and break your neck

What? You are on the cracky-crack. Two "fit young men" who are drunk are about as likely to be victimized as anyone else-- as these guys found out. I'm unsure why you think the presence of two penises ought to have made the couple bullet-proof.

It is because there were two penises.

[MrJonno]

Two fit young men will pretty much put off any individual attacker (unless they have a gun, a knife isnt going to be cut the mustard)l Its going to take a group of people to cause trouble and muggers most the time do not organise like that

[Coito ergo sum]

How do you figure?

You weren't there, don't really know, and accuse them straight of being druggies whose deal went wrong.

Of everyone, he's best qualified to make the inference, since he lives there and has driven the route.

Point of clarification, I don't live in Sarasota, but I am familiar with it. It's a very nice town, by and large, and I wasn't even aware that they had a "ghetto." I haven't driven the route - I checked it online via google and google streetview. The news article said that the place where they got shot was "known" for drugs.

Druggies or drunken idiots,

And, I would add that I never called them "druggies." Maybe they heard that you could buy weed there and were going to have a good time. Recreational use of some drugs doesn't make one a "druggie," in my view, not any more than drinking beer makes one an alcoholic.

in either case they are likely victims because of the socialist culture of the UK, where people are raised up to believe that government will protect them and the police will always be around to save them. Bad plan.

The UK is a nation filled with delusional sheeple, that much we can be certain of.

I don't agree with that notion of the UK. I've met a lot of good and tough Limeys, and a lot of pansy-ass delusional Americans. As much as the Blighters don't want to admit it, we have more in common than otherwise....

[Coito ergo sum]

That's a rather sweeping approach to a very large gamut of possible ailments. Thirty percent of Americans deal with depression-- should none of them be allowed to drive? And what about people who have mental illnesses that are controlled or in remission? Don't they have civil rights?

There are plenty of people with mental illness who aren't violent and pose no danger to society. Attitudes like yours are the reason many of them are afraid to come out about their problems and seek treatment.

Depends on the degree of mental illness (or any other illness) on whether they should be able to drive . Thats the current law in the UK driving is something you have to prove you are competent to do and are required to report any illness that may affect your ability to do so (The state/society determines if you are fit to drive not you). Wife was suffering from an extremely serious illness which required daily medical visits from nurses/shrinks etc and it would have been a complete irresponsibility by me as a human being never mind a husband to let her anywhere near a car.

No idea what the laws are like in the US but I would hope they would be similar, through I remember some TV program where a US driver had a heart attack and hit a policeman car causing him to have serious burns. The driver was criminally charge and convicted as he already knew he had a serious heart problem and another attack was likely. II support the principle but not sure what the point is in putting seriously ill people in jail).

If depression can be medically or otherwise controlled then I don't see a problem in them driving but thats a doctor/government/society decision not theirs

You said you didn't think anyone with a mental illness should be allowed to drive. I'm glad you didn't mean that, and that you recognize nuances of degree. Still, there's probably a reason you didn't employ that sense of nuance in your earlier statement. Sweeping generalizations promote intolerance.

The mentally handicapped are fine behind the wheel. It's the women that you have to watch out for.











J/k

[Coito ergo sum]

Better a sheep than a parasite on society.

This doesn't make any sense.

Sheep contribute to society even if its just as wool or meat libertarians just try to destory it

Sheep also run the risk of being raped by the shepherd...I'll lean towards being a "meat libertarian" - whatever that is - given the options....

[Coito ergo sum]

RE the 'mental illness' angle.
I am recurrently suicidally depressed. It never occurs to me during those times to go out and shoot someone. The only person in danger from one of my guns is me, and I haven't used one to do myself in yet. FYI taking away my guns won't prevent my suicide--should I eventually decide to go that route.

Scary really scary, I suppose you are allowed to drive as well?

What is it you fear?

I drive, I handle other people's money, I wield knives under certain situations, I have drugs in the house.....mine is a cornucopia of things for other people to be afraid of.

My wife has a serious mental illness and when she was going through a bad phase the first thing I did was take her car keys off her. Yeah I have a serious problem with suicidal people (or anyone with any mental illness) having access to any lethal weapons including cars. I could have just called up the appropiate government department and had her driving license cancelled (which they certainly would have done) but I didnt think that was neccesary.

She is now a lot better (but not cured) and driving but I wouldnt hesitate to do the same thing again

That's a rather sweeping approach to a very large gamut of possible ailments. Thirty percent of Americans deal with depression-- should none of them be allowed to drive?

The ones with tits, yes. They apparently get in the way of their arms while trying to steer....

[Svartalf]

Never having tried IHOP, I can't verify the gravity of that accusation

[Gallstones]

The UK is a nation filled with delusional sheeple, that much we can be certain of.

I don't agree with that notion of the UK. I've met a lot of good and tough Limeys, and a lot of pansy-ass delusional Americans. As much as the Blighters don't want to admit it, we have more in common than otherwise....

I met a British gentleman a little over a week ago. He was passing through on his way to Seattle and staying with friends in town. They brought him to the bar. I found him rude. He didn't speak to me or look at me at all. Despite having been introduced he ignored me and he ignored my dog. What Brit ignores a dog?

I'm sure they aren't all like that.

[Coito ergo sum]

The UK is a nation filled with delusional sheeple, that much we can be certain of.

I don't agree with that notion of the UK. I've met a lot of good and tough Limeys, and a lot of pansy-ass delusional Americans. As much as the Blighters don't want to admit it, we have more in common than otherwise....

I met a British gentleman a little over a week ago. He was passing through on his way to Seattle and staying with friends in town. They brought him to the bar. I found him rude. He didn't speak to me or look at me at all. Despite having been introduced he ignored me and he ignored my dog. What Brit ignores a dog?

I'm sure they aren't all like that.

I have had several Brits tell me that one of the things they like about the States is how friendly we are to people. They are amazed that Americans will talk and interact and socialize, and welcome, non-Americans into their midst. Apparently, the Brits are a bit more staid and stodgy in this regard, outsiders being outsiders. I'll let the Brits here clarify, but I have heard this from at least 3 British tourists. They find Americans in the States to be quite pleasant.