Republicans to cut $4,000,000,000,000 over 10 years

[Seth]

It's a nice-sounding idea, but the realities are far different, which is why Marxism is a revolutionary ideology and not a self-fulfilling economic truth. If Marxism worked, if the workers owning the means of production were economically useful, it would have long ago become the dominant economic model all on its own, because the laws of economics automatically favor efficiency and cost effectiveness.

In fairness to Marx, at the time he was writing the industrial revolution was relatively recent, and it wasn't as clear as it is now that his theories were factually incorrect.

I agree. Marx was a product of the specific economic and social conditions that obtained at the time. Problem is, Marxists today continue to cling to the irrational and delusional belief that his ideology can be transplanted into any capitalist society effectively. But it can't, and every time it's tried, death and destruction follow.

[Seth]

It's a nice-sounding idea, but the realities are far different, which is why Marxism is a revolutionary ideology and not a self-fulfilling economic truth. If Marxism worked, if the workers owning the means of production were economically useful, it would have long ago become the dominant economic model all on its own, because the laws of economics automatically favor efficiency and cost effectiveness.

In fairness to Marx, at the time he was writing the industrial revolution was relatively recent, and it wasn't as clear as it is now that his theories were factually incorrect.

He was also writing in the context of a Europe where the people lived in absolute, utter squalor. Nobody would come up with Communist theory like Marx's in the context of European sociopolitical realities today.

Correct, but unfortunately the delusional Marxists out there fail to understand that the inevitable eventual end result of Marxism is totalitarian tyranny and death as Communists try to bring about the utopian ideal.

[egbert]

What dumb-fuck socialists simply are too stupid to understand is that no government on earth can afford to provide free health care for everyone for very long, because the costs of providing the entitlement soon outstrips the ability of the economy to generate sufficient wealth to pay for it, at which point the entire economy collapses. It's as inevitable as gravity.

And that doesn't even begin to address all the OTHER entitlement programs that suck the OPM from the system, which brings down the economy even faster.

Every time I point out this fact, even when I do it in great detail by describing exactly how socialism always fails, socialists, in their blindered delusion that goods and services simply drop from the heavens like manna, simply ignore the truth and change the subject, usually to a personal attack.

I sure would love to see the Marxists here explain, just once, how a Marxist system is self sustaining economically. They love to bitch about how unfair capitalism is and rant and rave about evil corporations (the ones that just happen to give them jobs), but they never, ever, not once have described how a socialist economy actually works once the wealthy have been stripped of their wealth and everybody is engaged in one-downsmanship as they attempt to do the least possible amount of work possible without getting fired.

Nobody has a "right" to health care because that implies that other people may be enslaved to the service of the individual to provide it to them at someone else's expense.

Yeah, we've noticed that anyplace the dumbfucks have introduced things like life insurance, fire insurance, automobile insurance, you know, where the socialist idiots pool and share risks, the whole economy quickly collapses. Yep. Good thing you smart right whingers can see through those scams.

I was wondering, though, since you mentioned having a couple of automobiles, do you carry insurance on them? Surely not - I mean, after all, you wouldn't expect ME to pay for YOUR feckin car accident, would you? THat would be so "dependent class"!

Oh, and, about Marxism and Roosevelt - wasn't that back in the 19th century? Do you have a time machine, or something?

[Warren Dew]

Yeah, we've noticed that anyplace the dumbfucks have introduced things like life insurance, fire insurance, automobile insurance, you know, where the socialist idiots pool and share risks, the whole economy quickly collapses.

Funny, my life insurance, fire insurance, and automobile insurance are all provided by private companies.

[Seth]

Yeah, we've noticed that anyplace the dumbfucks have introduced things like life insurance, fire insurance, automobile insurance, you know, where the socialist idiots pool and share risks, the whole economy quickly collapses. Yep. Good thing you smart right whingers can see through those scams.

Once again, you fail to distinguish between voluntary association and assumption of risk, and voluntary participation in risk pools, and compulsory participation in government-assigned risk pools. This makes your comments ignorant and ill-informed.

I was wondering, though, since you mentioned having a couple of automobiles, do you carry insurance on them? Surely not - I mean, after all, you wouldn't expect ME to pay for YOUR feckin car accident, would you? THat would be so "dependent class"!

You only contribute to my insurance needs if you volunteer to join that risk pool. And for most of my vehicles, I carry on the legally-mandated (socialist) liability insurance, which is a giant scam in and of itself concocted by insurance companies and socialists wherein I have to pay to insure everyone else, which is a complete perversion of the whole concept of insurance.

Insurance is the practice of the individual joining a risk pool voluntarily, at their own expense, because that individual has some assets to protect or risks he is unwilling to self-insure against.

Mandatory liability auto insurance (which is the only legally-mandated auto insurance there is) is based on the socialist presumption that the individual has a duty to society to insure all of society against his potential wrongful acts, even though he has not yet committed any wrongful acts.

Oh, and, about Marxism and Roosevelt - wasn't that back in the 19th century? Do you have a time machine, or something?

Try 1940.

[Seth]

Yeah, we've noticed that anyplace the dumbfucks have introduced things like life insurance, fire insurance, automobile insurance, you know, where the socialist idiots pool and share risks, the whole economy quickly collapses.

Funny, my life insurance, fire insurance, and automobile insurance are all provided by private companies.

Mine too. And I don't even have insurance (other than state-mandated liability insurance) on most of my vehicles, because I "self-insure," which means that rather than pay thousands of dollars a year to an insurance company to cover damage to my vehicles, I drive carefully and either accept responsibility for damage I cause, and pay to have it repaired, or I sue the other driver who wrongfully damages my vehicle.

Over the last two decades, I've probably saved more than $25,000 in wasted insurance premiums. The same is true for my medical expenses. It would cost me more than $10,000 per year to have health insurance, and yet I just had my yearly medical checkup and prescription renewal and it cost me $136.00, including lab work. All that money I save I put into a savings account to deal with catastrophic medical events that actually earns me money in interest.

Unless you have substantial valuable assets to protect, insurance is just a scam.

But it's a VOLUNTARY scam, and thus the comparison to socialism is entirely inapt and specious, and is nothing more than a red herring fallacy that's all sound and fury signifying nothing.

[egbert]

Unless you have substantial valuable assets to protect, insurance is just a scam.

But it's a VOLUNTARY scam,

If you think it's VOLUNTARY, try getting a mortgage or a car loan after telling the lender you're not buying the VOLUNTARY insurance! What was that word you used - "dumbfuck"?

[Tero]

Budget signed. I have predicted the next step:
http://teroreport.blogspot.com/2011/04/ ... ap-to.html

[Seth]

Unless you have substantial valuable assets to protect, insurance is just a scam.

But it's a VOLUNTARY scam,

If you think it's VOLUNTARY, try getting a mortgage or a car loan after telling the lender you're not buying the VOLUNTARY insurance! What was that word you used - "dumbfuck"?

Pay cash in full and the car salesman will let you drive off the lot with out a second thought. Buying a car on credit is a voluntary act and the contract with the lender is likewise a private, voluntary matter, not a matter of government coercion.

The only vehicle I have full coverage insurance on is my new pickup truck, the one I bought on credit. The moment I pay it off, it'll go off the full coverage and will get only the liability insurance.

You still can't comprehend the difference between compulsory government force and private voluntary obligations and agreements, can you?

[egbert]

Yeah, we've noticed that anyplace the dumbfucks have introduced things like life insurance, fire insurance, automobile insurance, you know, where the socialist idiots pool and share risks, the whole economy quickly collapses.

Funny, my life insurance, fire insurance, and automobile insurance are all provided by private companies.

As most who DON'T get their history from Texas schoolbooks know, insurance actually began as human beings supporting each other, with the community pitching in to help rebuild when a family suffered a catastrophe. With the transition from a barter society to money, this evolved into mutual protection societies and co-ops, into which members paid and could look to for funds in case of need. Shades of (shudder!) leftism, commieism, socialism, and humanism!
Of course, it wasn't long before the lizard eye of the insatiable greedy capitalist fell on this potential source of "wealth building", i.e. PROFIT for me, me, me, and, we got the insurance industry.
They, naturally, had to MAXIMIZE profit, so we also got "the fine print", "the deductible", the "exclusions" (everything likely to happen in the locale - tornadoes, floods, lightning, acts of Gawd), and, if that failed, we'd just simply deny the claim, betting that the victim couldn't afford court action, or, as a last resort, play the bankruptcy card.

Of course, the right wing fellators of Capitalists, in the hope of joining their super-rich club, would never tell you such a thing, instead engaging in the usual half truths and deceptions, warning of the coming collapse should such non-profit mutual aid as universal medicare exist. The very thought that their neighbours should be entitled to the same level of srvice as them, well, how gawdawful! To think that I have to share the same hospital as the unwashed! Shudder! Surely the Constitution and Bill of Rights that says all men are created equal protects me from this!
Remember, the mutual aid thing ONLY causes catastrophic, inevitable, financial collapse in non-profit mode. When it includes the added cost of feeding the greedy, it works just fine.

Just look up the Nixon quote on the creation of HMO's, the wonderment of the realization of the Capitalist MIRACLE, "You mean we can PROFIT from denying medical care?".

[Coito ergo sum]

Yeah, we've noticed that anyplace the dumbfucks have introduced things like life insurance, fire insurance, automobile insurance, you know, where the socialist idiots pool and share risks, the whole economy quickly collapses.

Funny, my life insurance, fire insurance, and automobile insurance are all provided by private companies.

As most who DON'T get their history from Texas schoolbooks know, insurance actually began as human beings supporting each other, with the community pitching in to help rebuild when a family suffered a catastrophe. With the transition from a barter society to money, this evolved into mutual protection societies and co-ops, into which members paid and could look to for funds in case of need. Shades of (shudder!) leftism, commieism, socialism, and humanism!
Of course, it wasn't long before the lizard eye of the insatiable greedy capitalist fell on this potential source of "wealth building", i.e. PROFIT for me, me, me, and, we got the insurance industry.

It's always the other guy who is greedy. The individual making the accusation never is, even though everyone wants to make some money on a transaction they enter into - I mean, nobody wants to lose money, and nobody can ultimately remain active if they consistently lose money more than they make it. There is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to make money, and how it somehow became this great evil in some folks minds is very surprising to me.

You wouldn't call a little girl who opens up a lemonade stand to sell cups of lemonade for 25 cents each, to make 12 cents on each cup to raise some money, "greedy," would you? Maybe you would. I wouldn't. And, that's all capitalism is, at bottom. It's just someone making an investment - buying lemons and water and cups and stand, and taking the time and effort to make the lemonade, and then selling it. That's all it is. One can lament all day long about the fact that the "greedy" little girl didn't give away her lemonade to people on an equal basis. But, if she did that, her stand would be gone in short order.

They, naturally, had to MAXIMIZE profit, so we also got "the fine print", "the deductible", the "exclusions" (everything likely to happen in the locale - tornadoes, floods, lightning, acts of Gawd), and, if that failed, we'd just simply deny the claim, betting that the victim couldn't afford court action, or, as a last resort, play the bankruptcy card.

I have had cars with car insurance on it. I paid my premiums and have several times gotten in fender benders resulting in claims being made. I never once had an issue other than paying my deductible. I knew what the deductible was going in to the policy and had choices as to how large that deductible would be. Seemed rather reasonable, actually.

Of course, the right wing fellators of Capitalists, in the hope of joining their super-rich club, would never tell you such a thing, instead engaging in the usual half truths and deceptions, warning of the coming collapse should such non-profit mutual aid as universal medicare exist.

Universal Health care is actually not insurance. Insurance allocates and distributes risk. Universal healthcare allocates cost, but not risk.

The very thought that their neighbours should be entitled to the same level of srvice as them, well, how gawdawful!

Not godawful to me. I'm glad for them to get whatever level of service they get.

To think that I have to share the same hospital as the unwashed! Shudder!

That has nothing to do with capitalism. That's aristocracy, an anti-capitalist idea.

Surely the Constitution and Bill of Rights that says all men are created equal protects me from this!

No.

Remember, the mutual aid thing ONLY causes catastrophic, inevitable, financial collapse in non-profit mode. When it includes the added cost of feeding the greedy, it works just fine.

Mutual aid is great.

Just look up the Nixon quote on the creation of HMO's, the wonderment of the realization of the Capitalist MIRACLE, "You mean we can PROFIT from denying medical care?".

Who is denied medical care?

[Seth]

Yeah, we've noticed that anyplace the dumbfucks have introduced things like life insurance, fire insurance, automobile insurance, you know, where the socialist idiots pool and share risks, the whole economy quickly collapses.

Funny, my life insurance, fire insurance, and automobile insurance are all provided by private companies.

As most who DON'T get their history from Texas schoolbooks know, insurance actually began as human beings supporting each other, with the community pitching in to help rebuild when a family suffered a catastrophe. With the transition from a barter society to money, this evolved into mutual protection societies and co-ops, into which members paid and could look to for funds in case of need. Shades of (shudder!) leftism, commieism, socialism, and humanism!
Of course, it wasn't long before the lizard eye of the insatiable greedy capitalist fell on this potential source of "wealth building", i.e. PROFIT for me, me, me, and, we got the insurance industry.

Aside from your ridiculous connection between natural mutualism and altruism and the insurance industry, yes, people help each other, and have done so for a long, long time. That's the basis of civilization, in point of fact, and it's an aspect of a healthy human personality to have mutualistic and altruistic instincts. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, it's a necessary and proper part of a normal human psyche. Those normal human instincts are the basis for Libertarian philosophy and it's belief that humans do not have to be forced by government to help one another.

The liberal/progressive/Marxist delusional mental state, which is a manifestation of a mental illness and a dependent mentality on the other hand, believes that ONLY government is capable of taking care of people, and that therefore submission to government authority must be mandatory. In this liberal delusion, nicely pointed out and detailed by Dr. Lyle Rossiter Jr. in his book "The Liberal Mind," these mentally twisted and disoriented people, who have been raised up believing that they are not responsible for their own happiness and success, live in a fantasy world where government is their perpetual mommy, at whose tit they can suck forever. But this is a delusional state unconnected to a properly formed personality, as Dr. Rossiter proves.

You simply do not appear to be able to comprehend the distinction between voluntary cooperation and coerced behavior and government compulsion by force. Until you can do so, it's pretty much fruitless to try to discuss anything with you because your posts are irrational and delusional.

They, naturally, had to MAXIMIZE profit, so we also got "the fine print", "the deductible", the "exclusions" (everything likely to happen in the locale - tornadoes, floods, lightning, acts of Gawd), and, if that failed, we'd just simply deny the claim, betting that the victim couldn't afford court action, or, as a last resort, play the bankruptcy card.

It's called a "contract." A contract, since you obviously don't know what one is, is a written instrument by which people agree to particular duties and obligations to be performed by each as a part of a voluntary transaction and exchange of value. In an insurance contract, you pay the insurance company an amount of money. The insurance company in turn promises to indemnify you against particular harms to yourself or your property. The limits of the companies liability in that regard are set forth in the contract with great specificity and exactitude, and prior to paying the insurance company, you are expected to READ THE FUCKING CONTRACT so that you know what is covered and what is not covered by your payment. If the peril you suffer is not covered by the contract, or is only covered up to a certain amount, well, you knew that when you signed the contract, and you accepted that limitation, voluntarily, when you did so.

The amount of coverage you get, what is covered, under what circumstances and restrictions, and what perils are excluded determine how much you pay in premiums for the protection offered. If you want an "all perils, no limit" insurance policy, they are available, but at a much higher cost because the risks of having to pay out on the part of the insurer are much higher. And the amount you pay is based on the insurance company's best guess of the chances that it will have to pay out for the peril covered. It's an actuarial process by which the company calculates how much to charge for a specific coverage so that it can make money.

Insurance is not a altruistic thing. You have no inherent right to be protected against the perils and vicissitudes of life. You have no right to be compensated for some injury you suffer or loss you incur. Government has no obligation, and indeed no constitutional authority to save you from any peril, and you have no legal claim against the government for failing to protect you. This is manifested, for example, in the legal fact that the police have NO LEGAL DUTY to protect you. They can stand there and watch you being beat to death and do nothing, and you have no legal recourse against them for failing to take action. This is called "Sovereign Immunity" in the law.

Insurance is something that someone offers to consumers as a BUSINESS, for the purposes of making money. They pool money and offer to pay you if you suffer a loss, and they hope to have lots of customers, most of whom do NOT suffer losses whose payments for coverage will cover the payouts for actual losses by the minority of members of the particular risk pool. People buy insurance because they have something valuable to protect that's worth the yearly or monthly premium to them, based on their fear and analysis of the risk of loss.

It's all a perfectly VOLUNTARY system of free-market transactions and contracts specifying the terms and conditions. If you don't like the terms, don't buy the insurance. If you want more coverage, pay more money.

Which of course is the antithesis of government regulation and coercion.

Of course, the right wing fellators of Capitalists, in the hope of joining their super-rich club, would never tell you such a thing, instead engaging in the usual half truths and deceptions, warning of the coming collapse should such non-profit mutual aid as universal medicare exist.

It's not "non-profit mutual aid," it's pure, undiluted government force. It's the extraction of tax money from the majority to pay for the medical care of the minority at, ultimately, the barrel of a government-owned gun.

The very thought that their neighbours should be entitled to the same level of srvice as them, well, how gawdawful!

They're entitled only to the level of service they can PAY FOR. Or, morally speaking, the level of service that they can convince others to altruistically help them pay for through appeals to the mutualistic and charitable instincts of their neighbors. But they are NOT entitled to send out government thugs with guns to rob their neighbors in order to provide them with a level of service that they think they are entitled to. That's pure, undiluted theft.

To think that I have to share the same hospital as the unwashed! Shudder! Surely the Constitution and Bill of Rights that says all men are created equal protects me from this!

Nope. You're CREATED equal. From birth you have exactly the same opportunity to succeed, OR TO FAIL as every other person, based on your own personal, individual strengths and weaknesses. The Bill of Rights does not guarantee you equality of economic or social OUTCOME, just the right to pursue happiness as best you are able.

Remember, the mutual aid thing ONLY causes catastrophic, inevitable, financial collapse in non-profit mode. When it includes the added cost of feeding the greedy, it works just fine.

Just look up the Nixon quote on the creation of HMO's, the wonderment of the realization of the Capitalist MIRACLE, "You mean we can PROFIT from denying medical care?".

And therein lies the problem with "health care insurance." It's not really insurance at all, it's pre-paid health care. Insurance is something you buy in hopes of never using it, as a backstop against catastrophic loss of a valuable item that you cannot afford to pay cash to replace, like a house or a car.

Health "insurance" is different, particularly and specifically the HMO model and universal health care in the socialist model. This is because everyone consumes health care resources at some point in their life, so from an actuarial standpoint, there is a 100 percent chance that the insurer will have to dole out money for EVERY person it covers, unlike, for example, car insurance, where the insurer only pays for the occasional accident but collects premiums from the rest of the pool who do not wreck their cars.

The pre-paid health care market (HMOs) therefore faces the inevitable consumption of medical resources, and the inevitable costs of covering those claims. In order to even stay in business, it must collect more money than it spends, even if it's a non-profit HMO. The problem is, of course, that the consumer knows that the HMO has to, by contract, cover ANY medical need the consumer might have, no matter how petty and small or expensive and extensive, up to the limits of coverage (which Obama just erased) and so the consumer will naturally want to get the most service for his money, so he will go to the doctor at the slightest provocation, and each visit costs the HMO money. This results in high demand for services, which results in high prices for the services, which is a natural function of supply and demand. As the client gets older, their consumption of medical resources skyrockets, and in the last six months or so of life, most people spend something like seventy percent of their total lifetime medical expenses on end-of-life, extremely expensive care.

HMOs know this is coming, so they naturally try to cut costs by denying medical care that is not part of the contract they agreed to when the client signed up. The client knows this, because presumably they READ THE FUCKING CONTRACT and knew that particular procedures, medications or diseases were NOT part of the coverage offered, precisely because the HMO knows full well that by offering that coverage, they will be bankrupted by expensive, fruitless and ultimately useless treatments for terminal conditions that extend the client's life only a few weeks or months. HMOs are not charitable institutions. They have to balance the books, so they have to limit what they can cover or they will go out of business, as many health care organizations are doing right now thanks to Obamacare...which is as planned by Obama and the Progressives.

By mandating coverage and restricting how much insurers can charge, and by eliminating lifetime limits, Obama plans to drive all private health care insurance companies out of business, which is in the process of happening right now, as part of a plan to "respond to the crisis" in the "lack of affordable health care" (which Obamacare has driven the costs of so high the industry simply goes away) with "swift government action" to "keep people from dying" by instituting government-run universal socialized health care.

But that will simply collapse the economy, just as it's doing in every other socialized medicine country where the OPM has finally run out.

But I digress...

Back to the point, which is that health care insurance, and indeed any sort of insurance, is not some grand conspiracy, it's a series of fully voluntary contractual transactions between providers and clients that anyone is free to eschew or participate in at their will.

Which is substantially different from compulsory socialized medicine, which is compulsory not just in participation (the mandate to buy from Obama) but is compulsory to fund, even if you don't want, don't need and won't use the socialized system and prefer to buy your actual health CARE (not "insurance") a la carte, from the actual medical PROVIDER of your choice, for cash, at a substantial discount offered because there's no insurance or government red tape involved.

If everyone put the money they pay in HMO premiums into a bank account and LEFT IT THERE for their routine medical care, and purchased an actual catastrophic health care insurance policy, and paid for their routine care in cash, from their personal savings, we'd all be better off, and health care would be much cheaper and more widely available (as if it isn't already).

So, to sum up, you still cannot distinguish between voluntary cooperation and government coercion and compulsion. Until you can, your arguments comprise "useful idiot" arguments and little more.

[Seabass]

Yeah, we've noticed that anyplace the dumbfucks have introduced things like life insurance, fire insurance, automobile insurance, you know, where the socialist idiots pool and share risks, the whole economy quickly collapses.

Funny, my life insurance, fire insurance, and automobile insurance are all provided by private companies.

As most who DON'T get their history from Texas schoolbooks know, insurance actually began as human beings supporting each other, with the community pitching in to help rebuild when a family suffered a catastrophe. With the transition from a barter society to money, this evolved into mutual protection societies and co-ops, into which members paid and could look to for funds in case of need. Shades of (shudder!) leftism, commieism, socialism, and humanism!
Of course, it wasn't long before the lizard eye of the insatiable greedy capitalist fell on this potential source of "wealth building", i.e. PROFIT for me, me, me, and, we got the insurance industry.
They, naturally, had to MAXIMIZE profit, so we also got "the fine print", "the deductible", the "exclusions" (everything likely to happen in the locale - tornadoes, floods, lightning, acts of Gawd), and, if that failed, we'd just simply deny the claim, betting that the victim couldn't afford court action, or, as a last resort, play the bankruptcy card.

Of course, the right wing fellators of Capitalists, in the hope of joining their super-rich club, would never tell you such a thing, instead engaging in the usual half truths and deceptions, warning of the coming collapse should such non-profit mutual aid as universal medicare exist. The very thought that their neighbours should be entitled to the same level of srvice as them, well, how gawdawful! To think that I have to share the same hospital as the unwashed! Shudder! Surely the Constitution and Bill of Rights that says all men are created equal protects me from this!
Remember, the mutual aid thing ONLY causes catastrophic, inevitable, financial collapse in non-profit mode. When it includes the added cost of feeding the greedy, it works just fine.

Just look up the Nixon quote on the creation of HMO's, the wonderment of the realization of the Capitalist MIRACLE, "You mean we can PROFIT from denying medical care?".

So instead of broadening your tent by convincing people that socialism is good, you'll just broaden the definition of socialism.

"Mutual aid" isn't an exclusive property of socialism. Was Milton Friedman a socialist? He supported "mutual aid", after all.

[egbert]

Just look up the Nixon quote on the creation of HMO's, the wonderment of the realization of the Capitalist MIRACLE, "You mean we can PROFIT from denying medical care?".

Who is denied medical care?

Ostrich syndrome?

Provides one of the most descriptive records of the horrors of HMO medicine during the 1990s, with numerous stories of individuals who were denied care or had to fight their HMOs for coverage of medical services. Court and Smith make a compelling case for the absurdity of a health-care system based on the concept of minimizing care to increase profits and please shareholders. They reveal how and why most HMOs have broken their early promises to control costs and reduce the number of uninsured Americans

http://www.makingakilling.org/

[egbert]

Just look up the Nixon quote on the creation of HMO's, the wonderment of the realization of the Capitalist MIRACLE, "You mean we can PROFIT from denying medical care?".

Who is denied medical care?

I injured my back 15 yrs. ago and have dealt with it myself over the years. Earlier this year, it bacame unmanageable, so I started seeing a chiropractor which manages the pain enough to keep me mobile and working. My HMO just hired an intermediary company that seems mostly to deny treatment. I have been denied any more treatments, so I've missed more work....more than I've ever missed in the twenty years I've worked at my company. I sent an appeal to the med. ins. company, but don't have much hope. It seems senseless to deny treatment that keeps me upright and working at my desk versus the cost of back adjustments, and this isn't even taking into consideration my time off which is now staying home, rotating between the couch and the recliner. I'm off again this past week and probably in big trouble at work for missing all this time. I pay for med coverage, why would they deny something that is working?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 254AA8ph7m