Place Your Bets: U.S. Gov't Shutdown - Friday

[Coito ergo sum]

Well, apparently, unless the Publicans and the Crats agree on a temporary extension, the gubmint will shut down after Friday.

Both sides are playing chicken. The US Congress couldn't even pass a 2011 budget, and the fiscal year started 6 months ago.

What I don't get is that the Democrats campaigned two years ago on fiscal responsibility and everything had to be Pay-Go (pay as you go) with no spending that is not somehow funded.

They ought to come up with the needed spending cuts. If the Crats don't agree with something the Pubs want cut, then they ought to suggest something else to cut instead that will cut the same amount out of the budget.

[Ian]

Excuse me, but I already started a thread with a poll on this subject.

[Coito ergo sum]

Darnit.. didn't see it..

[Warren Dew]

Both sides are playing chicken. The US Congress couldn't even pass a 2011 budget, and the fiscal year started 6 months ago.

The Republicans in the House have passed a budget. The Democrats controlling the Senate haven't passed a thing yet - they basically haven't even said what they want as a negotiating position. They may try to blame the House Republicans, but it's going to be pretty hard to make stick.

Obama's overreaching too. If he really wants a budget, he needs to just say, "hey, you guys need to agree, and anything you can agree on I'll sign". Instead, he's refusing to accept certain things. Serve him right if he gets to shut down the government himself by vetoing a budget bill he doesn't like.

[maiforpeace]

New Polls: Tea Party RoadblockTo Budget Compromise

WASHINGTON -- Two new national polls confirm the political underpinnings of the ongoing budget stalemate: Most independent and Democratic voters want leaders to compromise and reach a budget deal, but the Republican's Tea Party base wants the GOP to stick to a hard-line position -- even if that could force a government shutdown.

The new polls released yesterday by Gallup and the NBC News/Wall Street Journal polling partnership support the results published by the Pew Research Center earlier this week. "The American public," as Gallup explains, "has clearly and consistently expressed a desire for elected officials in Washington to pass a new fiscal year budget without bringing government operations to a halt."

So why the stalemate? Tabulations by party provide the answer:



As the table above shows, slightly better than two-thirds of Democrats want their leaders to compromise on the budget (support ranges from 68 to 69 percent) rather than force a shutdown. Similarly, the majority of independents also want lawmakers of both parties to compromise: between 53 to 76 percent support a deal. But Republicans are split, with more urging their leaders to stick to their positions (between 50 and 56 percent), rather than supporting a compromise to avert a shutdown (between 36 and 44 percent).

Two of these surveys identify Tea Party Republicans as the most resistant to compromise. Both the Pew Research and NBC/Wall Street Journal polls show exactly 68 percent of Tea Party members want the Republican leaders to stick to their positions, while both polls found only 28 percent favor compromise. On the other hand, Republicans who do not identify with the Tea Party on the Pew Research poll favor compromise by a two-to-one margin: 56 percent to 26 percent. (The third survey, from Gallup, did not report results for Tea Party identifiers.)

It is this kind of political pressure from the Republican base that, as the Wall Street Journal reports, "has prompted the Republican-led House to approve a bill calling for $61 billion in budget cuts in the current fiscal year, far more than Democratic lawmakers want."

The NBC/Wall Street Journal poll also confirms that Americans are divided and uncertain about whom they might blame if a government shutdown occurs. Roughly the same number say they would blame the Republicans in Congress (37 percent) as say they would blame either President Obama (20 percent) or the Democrats in Congress (20 percent). That result is about the same as the outcomes of three polls conducted by Pew Research and the Washington Post last month, which also asked about "blame" for a potential shutdown.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/04/08/ ... Stories%29

[Coito ergo sum]

So...then why don't the Democrats compromise? Since that's what their constituents want them to do...

We all know the nation can't keep spending like this. And, Ryan's plan isn't really a cut in spending - it's a reduction in the projected increase in spending. That's all.

We really need to face it - we don't have the money. We don't have it. It's like not having the money to go out to dinner on Saturday night. You could charge it on a credit card, but to do so you have to have a good idea that you're going to have the money later. We don't have a good idea that we're going to have the money later. We can't keep spending money on stuff.

If I were the Democrats - I'd offer the same level of "cuts" but, offer different things to cut. They can say - you can't cut program X, but here - let's cut program Z instead.

[Coito ergo sum]

And, out trots the hyperbole and doomsaying:

Nancy Pelosi calls GOP budget 'a war on women'

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/04 ... z1IwAWkUbw

Eleanor Homes Norton:

“We are absolutely outraged. This is the functional equivalent of bombing innocent civilians,” she said.

Read more: http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/politic ... z1IwAut4ZF

Jesse Jackson says it's like the Civil War: http://dailycaller.com/2011/04/07/jesse ... ver-again/

And, the reality:

Congressional negotiators on Friday differed by $6.5 billion in their efforts to agree on the size of spending cuts in budget talks aimed at avoiding a government shutdown

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/budget-negotia ... 2-032.html

Christ - The federal budget is what? $3.8 TRILLION dollars, and we're apart by $6.5 billion? Fuck! Cancel something that's non-essential that costs $6.5 billion and fucking do the deal!

[Ian]

So...then why don't the Democrats compromise? Since that's what their constituents want them to do...

We all know the nation can't keep spending like this. And, Ryan's plan isn't really a cut in spending - it's a reduction in the projected increase in spending. That's all.

We really need to face it - we don't have the money. We don't have it. It's like not having the money to go out to dinner on Saturday night. You could charge it on a credit card, but to do so you have to have a good idea that you're going to have the money later. We don't have a good idea that we're going to have the money later. We can't keep spending money on stuff.

If I were the Democrats - I'd offer the same level of "cuts" but, offer different things to cut. They can say - you can't cut program X, but here - let's cut program Z instead.

Between the two parties, I don't think the Democrats are the ones having the harder time compromising. The Republicans are the ones infected by a sizeable bloc of Tea Party whackos who'll be only to happy to shut down the government if they don't get everything the way they want it (despite the shutdown ultimately costing taxpayers MORE for each day that it's shut down). It's probably driving Boehner up a wall.

I agree that Uncle Sam can't keep spending like he has. That's only half the problem though. The government has a revenue problem as much as it has a spending problem. Sooner or later, that side of things is going to have to come back up. Simply raising taxes high enough to cover the deficit isn't much of a solution (that'll just stifle economic growth), but neither will waiting around (and hoping) for that growth to catch up enough to cover the gap. One thing that should be painfully obvious from the last ten years is that large tax cuts really don't pay for themselves. Controlling the deficit in the coming years will require a combination of higher taxes and economic growth. And as Ronald Reagan can attest, those two things are not mutually exclusive.

A little perspective though: Let's say you make five thousand dollars a month (though you're expecting those wages to increase over the next few years), but you're paying around eight thousand a month in living expenses, and you also have some personal debts amounting to about forty thousand dollars. Sounds like a disaster? It would be if you had little or no net worth, but if your total net worth is around a million dollars, your problems really aren't that severe. The US economy overall is valued in the hundreds of trillions of dollars, with financial assets outweighing financial liabilities by around 25-30 trillion dollars. The Tea Party types who look at the current deficit and manage to predict Gotterdammerung need to step back and take a deep breath.

[Coito ergo sum]

LOL - Now Reid says that GOP actually WANTS the shutdown for the purpose of keeping women from getting cancer screenings. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/ ... 9220110408

Can anything be more insulting to one's intelligence? They just want to whip up the Democratic base into an hysterical frenzy. Those damn Republicans! They're trying to kill us!

[Atheist-Lite]

You don't mind if the rest of the world just dumps the dollar and walks away now do you?

[maiforpeace]

LOL - Now Reid says that GOP actually WANTS the shutdown for the purpose of keeping women from getting cancer screenings. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/ ... 9220110408

Can anything be more insulting to one's intelligence? They just want to whip up the Democratic base into an hysterical frenzy. Those damn Republicans! They're trying to kill us!

That's not about cancer screenings...it's about Planned Parenthood. We are already in a hysterical frenzy about that.

[Coito ergo sum]

You don't mind if the rest of the world just dumps the dollar and walks away now do you?

...wouldn't blame you...

[Coito ergo sum]

LOL - Now Reid says that GOP actually WANTS the shutdown for the purpose of keeping women from getting cancer screenings. http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/ ... 9220110408

Can anything be more insulting to one's intelligence? They just want to whip up the Democratic base into an hysterical frenzy. Those damn Republicans! They're trying to kill us!

That's not about cancer screenings...it's about Planned Parenthood. We are already in a hysterical frenzy about that.

These toolbags amaze me....They haven't even passed a FY 2011 budget yet and it's 1/2 way through FY 2011. The Democrats controlled both houses of Congress and the Presidency and had every opportunity to pass a 2011 budget. Why didn't they? Because as long as they didn't pass a fucking budget, they can avoid blame for the budget being so fat and bloated.

NOW - we have a situation where someone wants to reign in spending - not cut it, mind you - but, reign it in, and they want to bleat and cry wolf about how the Publicans want to murder us in our sleep? What the fuck...?

[Warren Dew]

So...then why don't the Democrats compromise? Since that's what their constituents want them to do...

Indeed. The Democrats' constituents want them to compromise; the Republicans' constituents want them not to compromise any more than they've already done; overall that sounds like the electorate is closer to agreeing with the Republican plan than the Democrat one. Sounds like they'd prefer the Republicans' position to the Democrats'.

If I were the Democrats - I'd offer the same level of "cuts" but, offer different things to cut. They can say - you can't cut program X, but here - let's cut program Z instead.

That's assuming you didn't secretly want the government to shut down. In fact, the Democrats in the senate have reason to believe that a shutdown will be blamed more on the Republicans than on them, so it's to their advantage to refuse to compromise. That Obama would get some blame too isn't really a concern if what you're worried about is just keeping your senate seat.