160 nukes hidden all over the US?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Then why does Osama mention Al Queda?

[MrJonno]

Then why does Osama mention Al Queda?

Because he would be called a communist fascist negro kenyan if he did, oh no change there.

Having an 'organisation' to blow up makes terrorists less scary as you can destroy headquarters, leaders etc with smart bombs and bullets. What you can't do is blow up individuals with no serious connection between them bar they not liking liberal democracies.

I'm absolutely not saying there are bad dangerous people out there but the idea that the people who blew up Bali, London, New York, parts of Iraq have anything in common bar not liking the west and being muslim is simply not true

[Gawdzilla Sama]

But he did mention Al Queda. Why would he claim a fictional organization when such a claim helps the opposition?

[MrJonno]

But he did mention Al Queda. Why would he claim a fictional organization when such a claim helps the opposition?

Which opposition are you talking about domestic political or terrorists?

I think most Islamic terrorists would be quite happy just to be known as Islamic?, sticking addtional labels on them make no difference to them

[Gawdzilla Sama]

But he did mention Al Queda. Why would he claim a fictional organization when such a claim helps the opposition?

Which opposition are you talking about domestic political or terrorists?

I think most Islamic terrorists would be quite happy just to be known as Islamic?, sticking addtional labels on them make no difference to them

Are we even discussing the same topic?

[MrJonno]

I was discussing whether Al Queda existed?, there arent 160 hidden nukes in the US anyway (well except US military ones but I assume they are meant to not explode inside the country)

[Wumbologist]

Then why does Osama mention Al Queda?

Because he would be called a communist fascist negro kenyan if he did, oh no change there.

I don't think anyone's ever accused Bin Laden of being Kenyan.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I was discussing whether Al Queda existed?, there arent 160 hidden nukes in the US anyway (well except US military ones but I assume they are meant to not explode inside the country)

Osama bin Laden admitted Al Queda exists. Need more proof than that.

As for the nukes, I have more guns than Hezzbolah, I'm not afraid of Al Queda.

[Coito ergo sum]

Al Queda does not exist , there is no Islamic world organisation dedicated to the over throw of western civilisation

Someone ought to tell Osama Bin Laden that. He seems to think he's a member of al Qaeda. He published a fatwa in Al Quds Al Arabi, a London-based newspaper, in August, 1996, specifically declaring war against the United States. Osama stated on May 26, 1998, "By God's grace," bin Laden says on the tape, "we have formed with many other Islamic groups and organizations in the Islamic world a front called the International Islamic Front to do jihad against the crusaders and Jews." "And by God's grace the men ... are going to have a successful result in killing Americans and getting rid of them." Within 11 weeks of the nonexistent AQ's followup declaration of war in 1998, al Qaeda attacked U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, in bombings that killed 224 people, including 12 Americans.

What does exist are local religious nuts who do hate the west and are obviously dangerous , but to pretend they are any sort of global organisation is a war on terror bullshit.

It's not, actually. To pretend that there is no global terrorist organization called Al Qaeta is naive.

As for evidence, people claim al queda exists proof it as you can't proof a negative

Done. In addition to the above facts, the following text is the second fatwa originally published on February 23, 1998, to declare a holy war, or jihad, against the West and Israel. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/i ... _1998.html It is signed by Osama bin Laden, head of al Qaeda; Ayman al-Zawahiri, head of Jihad Group in Egypt, and several other Islamic terrorist group.

On December 4, 1998, the CIA, under Clinton, wrote this memo:



Here is a timeline of AQ's attacks - global - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_o ... da_attacks

[Rob]

Lol. 9/11 truthers, Holocaust deniers and now this.

This person is very silly.

CES, I don't think that will be enough for someone who is making the claims that Jones is. He will claim that is part of the conspiracy.

[FBM]

Then why does Osama mention Al Queda?

Because he would be called a communist fascist negro kenyan if he did, oh no change there.

Having an 'organisation' to blow up makes terrorists less scary as you can destroy headquarters, leaders etc with smart bombs and bullets. What you can't do is blow up individuals with no serious connection between them bar they not liking liberal democracies.

I'm absolutely not saying there are bad dangerous people out there but the idea that the people who blew up Bali, London, New York, parts of Iraq have anything in common bar not liking the west and being muslim is simply not true

Judging from the Kenyan ref above, I'm thinking that this discussion got partially mangled by a misread: "Obama" instead of "Osama". Amirite?

There's still the question of AQ, tho.

[Coito ergo sum]

Then why does Osama mention Al Queda?

Because he would be called a communist fascist negro kenyan if he did, oh no change there.

You think Osama is afraid of being called names? Given that he's not running for office, I find that highly unlikely.

Having an 'organisation' to blow up makes terrorists less scary as you can destroy headquarters, leaders etc with smart bombs and bullets. What you can't do is blow up individuals with no serious connection between them bar they not liking liberal democracies.

Actually, pretending that they don't exist makes them even less scary, and adopting convoluted conspiracy theories placing the "blame" on our own government for having invented the nonexistent organization for nefarious purposes means that there aren't any real threats to us and what's really happening as that "we" are the bad guys.

I'm absolutely not saying there are bad dangerous people out there but the idea that the people who blew up Bali, London, New York, parts of Iraq have anything in common bar not liking the west and being muslim is simply not true

It really has nothing to do with who "likes" whom. it has everything to do with geopolitics and the very reasons Osama Bin Laden outlined in his fatwas and declarations of war. And to say that they aren't motivated by Islam is to ignore their words. They're telling us, explicitly, that they are motivated by Islam. Why do you doubt their own word?

[MrJonno]

The of calling a man and his bodyguards in a cave an organisation really makes no sense. An organisation has property including buildings, land. It has an hierachy of leadership with internal rules and procedures. If you don't have this you arent a different sort of organsatition you simply arent one.

A partially shared ideology yes, an organisation no. Its a bit like drugs you have people making money out of them but there is no World Union of Drug Pushers even through their are individuals and even groups of individuals who sell them

[FBM]

Dude, AQ exists or at least existed until they brought down too much heat on the name. I doubt they ever tied to surpass what they did on 9/11, but regardless, very few Islamic extremists would want to attract the CIA dollars committed to anyone even remotely associated with them. So they disappeared for the time being, who wouldn't? Doesn't mean they never existed.

[Rob]

Jonno, where are your citations and proof of a hoax? I mean, even believers of the magic bullet theory and thermite are sourced better than you.