chance

Post by **Svartalf** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:04 pm

Feck wrote:The question doesn't deserve an answer .No matter how you frame it it's still 'That' question .

daddy, how are babies made?

Post by **Animavore** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:12 pm

spinoza99 wrote:You're just assuming that things are the result of natural processes, you're not providing any proof. How about language. How is that the result of natural processes? What natural laws cause me to write these exact words on this screen? No laws do it, because laws have a for every one input there is one output structure. The number of different sentences I can write is infinite so I really don't see how there can be a law that can specify for an infinite number of outputs. Moreover, the ratio of correct sentences to incorrect sentences is also infinite. So how do natural laws even "know" what a correct sentence is. The answer is they can't, because laws have no knowledge.

So how does rain form? Is it natural processes or do angels piss down from the clouds? We know natural processes exist because we observe them all the time. We don't observe supernatural processes. Are you really trying to say that language isn't the result of a natural process? What the hell other process could it be? Ghosts exiting our mouths?

Sad.

spinoza99 wrote: Then we would just ask where did the natural processes come from? By chance or not by chance.

By the way, this thread is asking for evidence that we are here by chance. So far I haven't gotten any.

Good question. And it's one scientists try to answer.

You're argument from ignorance is not going to hold any sway here.

Post by **spinoza99** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:19 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
spinoza99 wrote:
Mr P wrote: Just open your mind and embrace the possibility of other options. The universe isn't black and white and you shouldn't limit yourself to such narrow constraints.

This basically a first cause argument isn't it?

Mr P, saying "open your mind" is not a logical argument.

No, this is not a first cause argument. All atheists believe we are here by chance. What is there evidence for believing that?
Where is your evidence for all atheists believing that? I am an atheist and I wouldn't make such a claim.

Are you ashamed of believing the Big Bang is the result of chance?

An atheist by definition cannot believe that the big bang is not the result of chance. Not chance = intention.

Post by **spinoza99** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:22 pm

Mr P wrote: What part of "no-one knows" didn't you understand?

No one knows is an argument form agnosticism. If you want to say no one knows then call yourself an agnostic.

Post by **Feck** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:25 pm

Wrong ,Spinoza ,lots and lots of wrong . As always

Post by **Xamonas Chegwé** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:25 pm

spinoza99 wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
spinoza99 wrote:
Mr P wrote: Just open your mind and embrace the possibility of other options. The universe isn't black and white and you shouldn't limit yourself to such narrow constraints.

This basically a first cause argument isn't it?

Mr P, saying "open your mind" is not a logical argument.

No, this is not a first cause argument. All atheists believe we are here by chance. What is there evidence for believing that?
Where is your evidence for all atheists believing that? I am an atheist and I wouldn't make such a claim.
Are you ashamed of believing the Big Bang is the result of chance?

An atheist by definition cannot believe that the big bang is not the result of chance. Not chance = intention.

I meant that I wouldn't make the claim that all atheists believed that - nor that ALL ATHEISTS believed anything!

And I would be as ashamed of believing that the big bang happened by chance as I would be ashamed of believing anything! My views on the big bang - and anything else - are conclusions drawn from available evidence and NOT beliefs. Belief implies holding a view without, or even despite, evidence. I do no such thing. I leave that to theists, they like belief - it's easier than thinking.

Post by **spinoza99** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:26 pm

Animavore wrote:

Are you really trying to say that language isn't the result of a natural process? What the hell other process could it be?

Language is a process of mind. A mind that has knowledge of words, chooses what words to utter and it knows what synapses in the brain to fire in order to cause the body to utter those words. Do you think that 100 trillion neurons just get lucky and the right words exit from the mouth by chance? If it's a natural law then how do you construct a natural law where an external stimulus causes the brain to utter words chosen from roughly a 50K set correctly?

Post by **Sælir** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:28 pm

spinoza99 wrote:
Animavore wrote:

Are you really trying to say that language isn't the result of a natural process? What the hell other process could it be?
Language is a process of mind. A mind that has knowledge of words, chooses what words to utter and it knows what synapses in the brain to fire in order to cause the body to utter those words. Do you think that 100 trillion neurons just get lucky and the right words exit from the mouth by chance? If it's a natural law then how do you construct a natural law where an external stimulus causes the brain to utter words chosen from roughly a 50K set correctly?

Seriously? If you are serious then this is the most stupid argument I have ever read

Post by **Xamonas Chegwé** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:29 pm

spinoza99 wrote:
Animavore wrote:

Are you really trying to say that language isn't the result of a natural process? What the hell other process could it be?
Language is a process of mind. A mind that has knowledge of words, chooses what words to utter and it knows what synapses in the brain to fire in order to cause the body to utter those words. Do you think that 100 trillion neurons just get lucky and the right words exit from the mouth by chance? If it's a natural law then how do you construct a natural law where an external stimulus causes the brain to utter words chosen from roughly a 50K set correctly?

But if it's not a natural process, how do you explain that an infallible god makes you mouth such utter twaddle?

Post by **spinoza99** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:35 pm

Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
spinoza99 wrote:
Animavore wrote:

Are you really trying to say that language isn't the result of a natural process? What the hell other process could it be?
Language is a process of mind. A mind that has knowledge of words, chooses what words to utter and it knows what synapses in the brain to fire in order to cause the body to utter those words. Do you think that 100 trillion neurons just get lucky and the right words exit from the mouth by chance? If it's a natural law then how do you construct a natural law where an external stimulus causes the brain to utter words chosen from roughly a 50K set correctly?
But if it's not a natural process, how do you explain that an infallible god makes you mouth such utter twaddle?

I don't believe God is the cause of my words. I believe my own mind is.

Post by **Svartalf** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:38 pm

what do you expect from a guy who seems to believe that it's an act of divine intent each time a volcano explodes and the lava happens to cool down into rock that includes crystalline structures.

Post by **Feck** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:39 pm

spinoza99 wrote:
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:
spinoza99 wrote:
Animavore wrote:

Are you really trying to say that language isn't the result of a natural process? What the hell other process could it be?
Language is a process of mind. A mind that has knowledge of words, chooses what words to utter and it knows what synapses in the brain to fire in order to cause the body to utter those words. Do you think that 100 trillion neurons just get lucky and the right words exit from the mouth by chance? If it's a natural law then how do you construct a natural law where an external stimulus causes the brain to utter words chosen from roughly a 50K set correctly?
But if it's not a natural process, how do you explain that an infallible god makes you mouth such utter twaddle?
I don't believe God is the cause of my words. I believe my own mind is.

Why ?

Post by **spinoza99** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:45 pm

Svartalf wrote:what do you expect from a guy who seems to believe that it's an act of divine intent each time a volcano explodes and the lava happens to cool down into rock that includes crystalline structures.

Those are the result of natural laws. But God is the author of Natural Law.

Post by **Animavore** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:45 pm

spinoza99 wrote:
Animavore wrote:

Are you really trying to say that language isn't the result of a natural process? What the hell other process could it be?
Language is a process of mind. A mind that has knowledge of words, chooses what words to utter and it knows what synapses in the brain to fire in order to cause the body to utter those words. Do you think that 100 trillion neurons just get lucky and the right words exit from the mouth by chance? If it's a natural law then how do you construct a natural law where an external stimulus causes the brain to utter words chosen from roughly a 50K set correctly?

As I said, your argument from ignorance holds no sway here.
I'm not going down the rabbit hole with you. It doesn't matter what answer is given because you don't want answers. You'll just keep moving one step back. For each explanation given you will say, "Well what caused that?" And so on and once an answer can't be given to your satisfaction you will say, "Ha! You can't explain why. Therefore - God. I win. Ha ha ha." Like a little child. You already decided what the answer to everything is so why bother asking questions?

Post by **Feck** » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:53 pm

Why ?

rationalia.com

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