chance

[spinoza99]

What evidence do the atheists have that we are here by chance?

[Bella Fortuna]

Define what you mean by "chance."

[Thinking Aloud]

What evidence do the atheists have that we are here by chance?

What evidence do theists have that we are not?

[Coito ergo sum]

What evidence do the atheists have that we are here by chance?

My parents happened to meet by a chance meeting, and it was just a lucky happenstance that they had the chance to fuck that night I was conceived, and it was a very, very lucky thing indeed that I happened to be the fastest sperm, leading the pack toward the egg. And, when you factor in that my grandparents - two sets of them - also had to meet and then fuck at just the right moment - well, the odds are astronomical - and go back another generation to the great grandparents....all them had chance meetings, chanced to fall in love or lust, chanced to fuck, and the lucky sperm needed for me to ultimately come into existence 2 generations down the line....

I'm here by chance. Yes, and it's quite obvious that I am. Every one of us is the product of endless generations of chance meetings, chance fuckings and chance fertilizations by particular sperms and particular eggs. Had one sperm been different over the generations, we'd not be here.

Quod Erat Demonstrandum

[Pappa]

Do you mean what evidence is there for abiogenesis or are you implying evolution = chance?

[Coito ergo sum]

Do you mean what evidence is there for abiogenesis or are you implying evolution = chance?

Let's not read into his question. He asked for evidence that "we" are here by chance. I think I summarized sufficient evidence that each one of us is here by chance, in terms of fortuitous or lucky happenstance. If that's not sufficient to answer his question, he'll have to explain what he meant.

Abiogenesis, moreover, is not a theory of chance, per se. Abiogenesis posits that under the right circumstances non-living chemicals will combine to form more complex molecules and eventually molecules will form under the right circumstances into self replicating sequences. Evolution then begins.

Like mixing chemicals in a test tube in chemistry class, we know that under the right circumstances sodium and chlorine will mix and combine to form Sodium Chloride. It's not random chance, though, because we know we can predict how much NaCl will form in the test tube. It's basic chemistry.

Think of the Earth as big beaker full of different chemicals and solutions, and those chemicals react with each other in knowable and predictable ways. As the molecules get bigger and more complex, the reactions become bigger and more complex. However, under the right circumstances and in the right combinations, certain complex polymers will form into nucleotides. We can do that in laboratories. Under the right circumstances, too, nucleotides will act and react and eventually fom RNA and then eventually DNA. Science hasn't quite nailed down what those circumstances are, though, to go from nonselfreplicating molecules to self-replicating molecules. Looks like we're headed in the right direction though.

[Feck]

The question doesn't deserve an answer .No matter how you frame it it's still 'That' question .

[Rum]

The premise is wrong in my view. 'Chance' suggests randomness or alternatives. It may well be that this is the only way things could be given the starting conditions of the universe.

[Svartalf]

we're not here by chance, we're here by the work of natural laws and the fact that with time, even unlikely but wondrous effects can result from just that

[Svartalf]

What evidence do the atheists have that we are here by chance?

What evidence do theists have that we are not?

Thanks TA, I did refrain from quipping that one.

[spinoza99]

By chance, I mean not the result of an intention or design.

[spinoza99]

we're not here by chance, we're here by the work of natural laws and the fact that with time, even unlikely but wondrous effects can result from just that

You're just moving chance to a different location. Where did those natural laws come from? If you say they came from God then you're not an atheists. Therefore, you believe that chance produced the natural laws.

Also, I'm not talking about abiogenesis. What I mean is what evidence is there that the Big Bang was the result of chance.

[spinoza99]

What evidence do the atheists have that we are here by chance?

What evidence do theists have that we are not?

This is called changing the subject. If you're willing to admit you have no evidence, we'll talk about it.

[Animavore]

we're not here by chance, we're here by the work of natural laws and the fact that with time, even unlikely but wondrous effects can result from just that

You're just moving chance to a different location. Where did those natural laws come from? If you say they came from God then you're not an atheists. Therefore, you believe that chance produced the natural laws.

Also, I'm not talking about abiogenesis. What I mean is what evidence is there that the Big Bang was the result of chance.

Who says the Big Bang was the result of chance? We don't know what it was the result of.

[spinoza99]

Abiogenesis, moreover, is not a theory of chance, per se. Abiogenesis posits that under the right circumstances

That's chance. The right circumstances have to appear by chance. You certainly don't believe those right circumstances were created by God.