Utah official state firearm

[JimC]

I am going to suggest a state weapon for my own state, Victoria.

A broken beer bottle...

[Gallstones]

Penis jousting!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I am going to suggest a state weapon for my own state, Victoria.

A broken beer bottle...

I thought you had the funnel web spiders there? Who needs weapons with them around?

[JimC]

I am going to suggest a state weapon for my own state, Victoria.

A broken beer bottle...

I thought you had the funnel web spiders there? Who needs weapons with them around?

You have to travel up to Sydney for one of those...

[Seth]

You saw the video where the guy hits the egg at 100 yards? So what makes it so much tougher to hit the center of the egg at that distance? Unless you're a crap shot, of course.

Took him three shots at least to do it, an egg isn't an eyeball, and if you expect anyone to stand there while you shoot them in BOTH eyes, you're delusional. Oh, and the demonstration used a .45, not a 9mm, not that it matters.

If you're saying that you can hit a target approximately 1 inch in diameter from 100 yards with a handgun from a bench-rest, twice, I'd say "sure, if you have an unlimited number of ranging rounds and a lot of time and luck." I can hit a steel human-torso shaped target pretty reliably from 50 yards with a 2" snub-nosed revolver standing off-hand, and I can do it all day long with my H&K USP Tactical, but I cannot predict to within one inch WHERE on the target the bullet will land, only that it will make a torso hit somewhere on the target. I could probably make reasonably reliable hits on a torso target with the H&K from 100 yards, and I have made shots inside an 8 inch circle at 200 yards from a rest using my Desert Eagle .50 pistol, but that took a handgun scope and a rest.

Shoot both eyes out of someone at 100 yards, not so much, because there are a number of other factors implicit in the "I can shoot your eyes out at 100 yards" claim, like the fact that a human being isn't an egg sitting on a block of wood, and the fact that the target is going to be moving, and that you're unlikely to have the luxury of shooting from a rest in a combat situation where you might be called upon to shoot someone's eyes out.

So, if you care to amend your claim a little bit, we might find agreement, but "I can shoot both your eyes out with a 9mm from 100 yards"?

Not a realistic claim, and I'd dispute it unless I witnessed it happen.

And, I'd like to point out that even if everything you say is absolutely true, you, or someone else, could do exactly the same thing with a .45, but they wouldn't need two shots, one would do the job quite nicely.

[Seth]

I am going to suggest a state weapon for my own state, Victoria.

A broken beer bottle...

For now. I imagine they will do to beer bottles what they've done to pint glasses in the UK...make them out of shatterproof resin just so drunks can't smack each other with them. This is part of the same program that wants to outlaw "pointed" kitchen knives.

What a bunch of maroons. Somebody who really wants to kill someone will either sharpen up a knife, or sharpen a stick.

[JimC]

I am going to suggest a state weapon for my own state, Victoria.

A broken beer bottle...

For now. I imagine they will do to beer bottles what they've done to pint glasses in the UK...make them out of shatterproof resin just so drunks can't smack each other with them. This is part of the same program that wants to outlaw "pointed" kitchen knives.

What a bunch of maroons. Somebody who really wants to kill someone will either sharpen up a knife, or sharpen a stick.

Actually, they have already forced nightclubs in Melbourne to serve drinks in plastic "glasses", because of the penchant for our young, drunken yobbos to glass each other in disputes...

That, at least, is a sensible move, because it is restricted to the actual problem locales, as opposed to a blanket requirement for plastic beer bottles, which is a bit absurd...

[Clinton Huxley]

Maybe you could have an official State firearm related injury too?

America is sick.

[JimC]

Maybe you could have an official State firearm related injury too?

America is sick.

I am conficted here...

Partly, I agree with you, Clinton...

But I owned may rifles and shotguns in the past...

My Ruger semi-automatic .22 was the sweetest little gun... I loved shooting it (mainly feral rabbits), I loved cleaning it...

No doubt, given the opportunity, I would have loved shooting a handgun on a range...

But some loves are destructive...

[egbert]

Utah designates Browning M1911 official state firearm.

Shit - I was so hoping it would be the AK 47.

[FBM]

Sorry, dude. I beat you to the punch. (But the AK is a helluva weapon. )

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=24765

[normal]

Penis jousting!

[Gallstones]

Maybe you could have an official State firearm related injury too?

America is sick.

I am conficted here...

Partly, I agree with you, Clinton...

But I owned may rifles and shotguns in the past...

My Ruger semi-automatic .22 was the sweetest little gun... I loved shooting it (mainly feral rabbits), I loved cleaning it...

No doubt, given the opportunity, I would have loved shooting a handgun on a range...
But some loves are destructive...

That's what makes them exciting.

[Gallstones]

I do not think it fair or reasonable or good logic to label a culture you aren't familiar with and don't fully understand as "sick" because one aspect of it contradicts one's idealism on that one aspect.

The US is not England, or Australia or France or Germany or any other western nation. We are what we are, we have our own history and our own cultural nuances and our own kinks to be worked out. One can not legitmately extrapolate what we should do or what we should want or what we should think based on one's culture separate from the US.

We should be just what we are--what else is there?


Besides, I think it's jealousy.

[.Morticia.]

I thought 45's made bigger holes and imparted more energy to target ?

Only when the round actually hits the target, tho. The 9mm is more accurate and the reduced recoil means you can put more shots on-target faster. The .45 has a much shorter effective range than the 9mm, too.

Nonsense. The accuracy has nothing to do with the caliber, only the quality of the firearm and the ability of the shooter. While the .45 does have greater recoil, it is also more effective as a man-stopper. The comparative absolute range of any handgun is largely irrelevant, since they are almost never effective beyond 50 yards at most, and are most commonly used at less than three yards. At any rational tactical distance, both are equally "accurate."

The low recoil of the 9mm is offset by the anemic performance of the bullet. A 115 grain 9mm round has far less lethal effect than a 250 grain .45 round. While the higher velocity of the 9mm round compensates somewhat for the lighter bullet, the heavier, though slower .45 round has better "knockdown" power, and it's less likely to overpenetrate.

I put away my 9mm in favor of a .45 long ago, in response to a photo in "Street Survival - Tactics for Armed Encounters" showing a PCP-loaded guy who was shot 29 times in the torso, arms and abdomen with 9mm rounds before becoming "incapacitated."

Recoil issues can be compensated for by training, and I can fire my H&K USP Compact .45 as quickly as anyone with a 9mm and be just as accurate at combat ranges. It just takes practice.

all good points

BUT

it's too heavy for me

and can't fit one easily in my handbag or on my hip or would need a bigger holster