Holy Crap!
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hadespussercats
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by hadespussercats » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:44 pm
Seth wrote:HomerJay wrote:.Morticia. wrote:I have to agree with Seth.
Whoa, time to do a checksum.
I wonder if it's different in the States than the UK cos I wouldn't see this as a problem here.
If there was a problem regarding socialisation you'd only know about it if you knew the social context, that is the make up and behaviour of the social group. If that knowledge isn't available you'd have to put in place a general rule along the signs Seth suggests of always keeping your head down.
A general rule would disallow for the possibility of the child exploring their beliefs in every circumstance, even in friendly environments, which doesn't seem a sustainable or productive view to take.
Well, when it comes to childhood satisfaction and happiness, do not most children learn to "keep their heads down" to some degree or other in order to be part of the social group? I certainly recall desperately trying to learn to "fit in" so that I wouldn't be excluded from all social activities when I was young. And I can say from experience that being an "unusual" person lead to a lot of social stigma and exclusion.
My only concern is that Pixie's mom not add to the load her child is going to be bearing no matter what by forcing her to confront theists at such a young age, when in all probability she doesn't even understand the concepts involved. I understand the socio-political pressures on atheists, believe me, but I don't think that children need to be used as pawns in that battle. Better, I think to let them make that decision when they are old enough to understand and accept the consequences freely.
Sometimes I think the only people worth spending time with as adults are those who experienced at least a little social ostracism when they were kids.
Surviving social ostracism puts muscles in your shit!
(I'm not endorsing deliberately turning your children into freaks-- just that kids are so conformist, it's hard to imagine one developing a sense of personal identity if s/he never bucks the order...)
The green careening planet
spins blindly in the dark
so close to annihilation.
Listen. No one listens. Meow.
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Seth
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by Seth » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:55 pm
hadespussercats wrote:Seth wrote:HomerJay wrote:.Morticia. wrote:I have to agree with Seth.
Whoa, time to do a checksum.
I wonder if it's different in the States than the UK cos I wouldn't see this as a problem here.
If there was a problem regarding socialisation you'd only know about it if you knew the social context, that is the make up and behaviour of the social group. If that knowledge isn't available you'd have to put in place a general rule along the signs Seth suggests of always keeping your head down.
A general rule would disallow for the possibility of the child exploring their beliefs in every circumstance, even in friendly environments, which doesn't seem a sustainable or productive view to take.
Well, when it comes to childhood satisfaction and happiness, do not most children learn to "keep their heads down" to some degree or other in order to be part of the social group? I certainly recall desperately trying to learn to "fit in" so that I wouldn't be excluded from all social activities when I was young. And I can say from experience that being an "unusual" person lead to a lot of social stigma and exclusion.
My only concern is that Pixie's mom not add to the load her child is going to be bearing no matter what by forcing her to confront theists at such a young age, when in all probability she doesn't even understand the concepts involved. I understand the socio-political pressures on atheists, believe me, but I don't think that children need to be used as pawns in that battle. Better, I think to let them make that decision when they are old enough to understand and accept the consequences freely.
Sometimes I think the only people worth spending time with as adults are those who experienced at least a little social ostracism when they were kids.
Surviving social ostracism puts muscles in your shit!
(I'm not endorsing deliberately turning your children into freaks-- just that kids are so conformist, it's hard to imagine one developing a sense of personal identity if s/he never bucks the order...)
Well, there is something to be said for that, and I admit it's true that my youth formed my personality, which is a strong and independent one that can take or leave relationships and is not a co-dependent personality, but I also admit that it was a hard fucking time for me, particularly in high school, where the social pressures are intense and the cruelty can be quite brutal. But it's equally true that the experience made me less able to form many close, bonded relationships, since I learned early to depend on no one but myself.
It's something of a conundrum, and careful balance is required to weigh short-term happiness against long-term social dysfunction.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
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Geoff
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by Geoff » Fri Mar 11, 2011 10:04 pm
HomerJay wrote:.Morticia. wrote:I have to agree with Seth.
Whoa, time to do a checksum.
I wonder if it's different in the States than the UK cos I wouldn't see this as a problem here.
That was my thought, too. Both at my school (way back in the dim and distant past), and at my kids' schools (both primary & secondary), it was the minority religious ones who mostly "kept their heads down".
"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can

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again." - Tigger
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Seth
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by Seth » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:58 am
Geoff wrote:HomerJay wrote:.Morticia. wrote:I have to agree with Seth.
Whoa, time to do a checksum.
I wonder if it's different in the States than the UK cos I wouldn't see this as a problem here.
That was my thought, too. Both at my school (way back in the dim and distant past), and at my kids' schools (both primary & secondary), it was the minority religious ones who mostly "kept their heads down".
It's completely different in the US when it comes to public school teachers talking about religion, which is flatly forbidden. Even keeping a bible on your desk as a teacher is a violation of the Establishment Clause, according to the courts, much less teaching religious dogma, and teachers and school districts get sued all the time, and lose, when they try to inject prayer or religion into the schools. But this is because they are public employees.
But this does NOT mean that students can't engage freely in religious speech, in a non-disruptive manner. They can pray, they can pray together, they can proselytize, and they can exclude and discriminate based on religion.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
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Xamonas Chegwé
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by Xamonas Chegwé » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:08 am
Geoff wrote:HomerJay wrote:.Morticia. wrote:I have to agree with Seth.
Whoa, time to do a checksum.
I wonder if it's different in the States than the UK cos I wouldn't see this as a problem here.
That was my thought, too. Both at my school (way back in the dim and distant past), and at my kids' schools (both primary & secondary), it was the minority religious ones who mostly "kept their heads down".
This ^^^
I considered myself a christian during my secondary school years but never mentioned it to anyone except a few "fellow travellers" in my class. I even joined in drawing willies in bibles in RE!

A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing 
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
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JimC
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by JimC » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:11 am
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:Geoff wrote:HomerJay wrote:.Morticia. wrote:I have to agree with Seth.
Whoa, time to do a checksum.
I wonder if it's different in the States than the UK cos I wouldn't see this as a problem here.
That was my thought, too. Both at my school (way back in the dim and distant past), and at my kids' schools (both primary & secondary), it was the minority religious ones who mostly "kept their heads down".
This ^^^
I considered myself a christian during my secondary school years but never mentioned it to anyone except a few "fellow travellers" in my class. I even joined in drawing willies in bibles in RE!

What one does to fit in with the in-crowd...
(PS - did it give you a sense of impending hell-fire?)
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
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Xamonas Chegwé
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by Xamonas Chegwé » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:24 am
I limited myself to drawing on the flyleaf and blank pages. Some of the others used to tear out pages and make paper darts which whirled around the classroom while the teacher was scribbling on the board.
I still can't understand why there was never a tsunami in Nottingham back in the 1970s - perhaps we were forgiven because we were heterosexuals?

A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing 
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
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Seth
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by Seth » Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:26 pm
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:I limited myself to drawing on the flyleaf and blank pages. Some of the others used to tear out pages and make paper darts which whirled around the classroom while the teacher was scribbling on the board.
I still can't understand why there was never a tsunami in Nottingham back in the 1970s - perhaps we were forgiven because we were heterosexuals?

God has plenty of time to immerse you in hellfire, he can wait to see how many OTHER sins you commit before the end...

"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S
"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth
© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.
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Warren Dew
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by Warren Dew » Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:50 pm
hadespussercats wrote:Sometimes I think the only people worth spending time with as adults are those who experienced at least a little social ostracism when they were kids.
My thought exactly. I'd hate to bring up kids who mindlessly travel with the herd rather than thinking for themselves.
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