Atheist flyering

[nellikin]

I don't know about the rationalia endorsement. However, it has me thinkging about who "owns" ratz, who has the right to promote it etc. etc. I guess the mods could vote on this, or you set up a poll, or whatever. Don't know what the consequences (for yourself) could be if you just did it. Could anyone really stop you? I guess people are worried about what the consequences would be for the forum if we got an influx of religious trolls, or whatever. Probably understandable...

I liked the flyer (it agrees with me) but in terms of efficacy, I'd ask myself "what is the point of it?". Do you want to promote ratz, or atheism, or both? And who is the target group? I guess most atheists might agree with the flyer, but religious people might find it too bold to be a reason to think about their faith. However, not being religious, I'm probably not a good judge of this. Just some food for thought.

[Pappa]

However, it has me thinkging about who "owns" ratz, who has the right to promote it etc. etc. I guess the mods could vote on this, or you set up a poll, or whatever.

The legal owners of Rationalia are the members of Rationalia Association:

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 57&p=23132
http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 29&p=84676

But for almost all practical purposes, the Mods run the site without consulting the Association on anything.

[JOZeldenrust]

Here is a design for an atheist flyer to "ram atheism down their throats" with. The objective is to hold their eyelids open like in A Clockwork Orange until they can never listen to the Jonas Brothers again without feeling physically sick. 5000 A6 flyers with one side greyscale costs around £200 I think on medium thickness card. All and any feedback very welcome as it's expensive if a mistake but I think attacking Pascal's wager is a good main theme as that's more like mental healthcare (tackling fear of hell) than insulting.

You should be able to find a cheaper manufacturer. A few years back I had 5000 flyers printed, double sided and full colour, for 70 euro's plus taxes - 85 an a bit total.

[FBM]

Frogs in ice cubes still. "Domain Unregistered" under it.

Edit: I gather that it has too much text for some peeps' taste. Remember, the targeted readers and their likely mindset. Something short enough that they don't have to think much, and things from people thet admire who turned out to be doubters.

Ex:

Abe Lincoln said, ""When you show me a church based on the Golden Rule as its only creed, then I will unite with it."

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Frogs in ice cubes still. "Domain Unregistered" under it.

Edit: I gather that it has too much text for some peeps' taste. Remember, the targeted readers and their likely mindset. Something short enough that they don't have to think much, and things from people thet admire who turned out to be doubters.

Ex:

Abe Lincoln said, ""When you show me a church based on the Golden Rule as its only creed, then I will unite with it."

And Stephen Fry said, "Religion: shit it!" One of my favourite quotes.

[FBM]

Frogs in ice cubes still. "Domain Unregistered" under it.

Edit: I gather that it has too much text for some peeps' taste. Remember, the targeted readers and their likely mindset. Something short enough that they don't have to think much, and things from people thet admire who turned out to be doubters.

Ex:

Abe Lincoln said, ""When you show me a church based on the Golden Rule as its only creed, then I will unite with it."

And Stephen Fry said, "Religion: shit it!" One of my favourite quotes.

More to the point, innit?

But not likely to evoke much self-examination in the believers...

[Halogenetic]

I liked the flyer (it agrees with me) but in terms of efficacy, I'd ask myself "what is the point of it?". Do you want to promote ratz, or atheism, or both? And who is the target group? I guess most atheists might agree with the flyer, but religious people might find it too bold to be a reason to think about their faith. However, not being religious, I'm probably not a good judge of this. Just some food for thought.

The point of the flyer is to reassure people "teetering on the edge of atheism" that Pascal's Wager is nonsense, with the aim of creating more atheists. It's a creative endeavour. Writning the rationalia URL on the flyer was to show people somewhere they could join in and feel part of an atheistic community, important especially if they're surrounded by die-hard theists. The objective was never to advertise this website but that would be a side effect.

I don't know about the rationalia endorsement. However, it has me thinkging about who "owns" ratz, who has the right to promote it etc. etc. I guess the mods could vote on this, or you set up a poll, or whatever. Don't know what the consequences (for yourself) could be if you just did it. Could anyone really stop you? I guess people are worried about what the consequences would be for the forum if we got an influx of religious trolls, or whatever. Probably understandable...

I'm sure the forum could handle any "religious trolls" by banning them or converting them to atheism. I could stick some other forum's URL on the flyers without asking I suppose. Did I ask? A poll of mods/members with a revised flyer design might be a fair way to get an answer.

[Halogenetic]

There is far too much text on this flyer IMO, and the sentences are way to long and complicated to be easily read and understood without knowing what the flyer is about. It needs a catch phrase to attract attention To be honest, I probably wouldn't bother reading it if I found that somewhere at a pub or elsewhere.

The aim is to say Pascal's wager is nonsense but an explanation of the image seems, erm, educational. It could be shorter though, missing out the Douglas Adams quote and streamlining the "it's not a choice what is believed" blurb. The second quote is another matter, I like the Asimov quote despite its length still. The Image on the front is the "catchphrase" which might grab peoples' attention, no need for another catchphrase IMO. I'll work on another design and post it through photobucket so maybe FBM can read it.

[Halogenetic]

Here's the next version then, with the Shreddies colour on the text side - looks like it can be printed full colour for < £100 very true JOZeldenrust. The Dave Matson quote seems good perhaps instead of Asimov - or maybe both would be better! Irresistible atheistic barrage! Cheers.

[floppit]

I'd kill the last two para's and finish on the DA quote.

When you think of persuasion it's rarely the words on the paper that play the larger role, more the words in the readers thoughts. Religious people will counter and argue with the last 2 paras (except perhaps for those that don't need to read them anyway). In effect the end consequence is that the reader will disagree and their own disagreement rather than what's written is what will remain with them - backfire! Especially re victim mentality, what are the real chances of a religious reader suddenly telling themselves 'oooh, it's 'cos I'm short of balls I believe'.

And, I agree re the Ratz URL. If someone religious came looking early on I think what's here would backfire, be TOO different, reaffirm teachings of immorality. However, if someone has already made that leap firmly enough for the notion of ethics to have replaced taught morality then I think ratz would be perfect. I'm not slating ratz, just saying.... baby steps.

[Thinking Aloud]

I'm not slating ratz, just saying.... baby steps.

What a wavering religious reader of such a flyer would expect to find on a linked website, I imagine, is a gentle introduction to atheism and non-biblical morality - somewhere that welcomes people of religious persuasion and doesn't leap onto and eviscerate their beliefs in the first moment. In other words, somewhere that exudes patience towards beliefs and believers, uses gentle arguments at first, comes across as thoroughly pleasant and welcoming, and doesn't make the believer feel stupid.

Hard call - I don't know of any site that does that as its stated mission, though I bet there are some. Sure, we welcome people here in that manner, if they arrive in that manner, but it's not a particularly gentle environment once you're inside! (Try thinking from a religious mindset when you look at average topics in the Pub here.)

Actually, that might be damned good site to set up somewhere...

[Twoflower]

I'd be really uncomfortable having our name on the flyer. What about just the facebook page? Also it was too wordy to keep my attention, try to cut it down to just a few sentences.

[Santa_Claus]

I think a really good idea.

But a bit wordy. and that second quote needs to be better / shorter and with a (recognisable) name on it. Something from Einstein maybe?

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this. "


http://atheism.about.com/od/einsteingod ... al-God.htm

I would also put a picture of a Fairy on it and maybe a tag line under the Url - sometime like "Relax - nothing happens when you stop beleiving"


for a forum to link to - how about the Flying Spaghetti monster forum - a clean looking URL. http://www.venganza.org. Been a few years since I was on - they were way too nice to the religious folks.......but that might fit in to your strategy. Set up your own Facebook page or use someone else's - bound to be a few FSM ones already by now.

Where are you going to be distributing?

[Halogenetic]

I'd kill the last two para's and finish on the DA quote.

That would nullify the stated objective of turning people away from terror of hell (Pascal's Wager). The victim mentality quote didn't make it past the first revision.

I bet there isn't a forum out there that wouldn't get protective over the use of "their" URL, never mind the agreeable objective of the project. Big fucking yawn. If the url linked to this thread everybody would see that the flyers are not official rationalia communications, if that's the concern and it's not just timid cliquey protectionism which is preventing people affirming the use of the url.

[Halogenetic]

I'd be really uncomfortable having our name on the flyer.

Why?

Also it was too wordy to keep my attention, try to cut it down to just a few sentences.

You must write TLDR a lot on this forum.