David Cameron's Assault on the Homeless

[Seth]

Most of the long term homeless have mental disorders ,and yes more mental health professionals should have been involved but they tend to be the untreatable disruptive patients or just never diagnosed ,some people will always slip through the net . It is easy to demonize them and this Government seems to be happy to remove frontline services so the gaps in the net are much much bigger .

It just seems strange that someone would write an article which praises the lavish treatment and care that are being canceled by using as example number 1 a person who slipped through the cracks.

I think it's much more likely that he escaped from the rat-race and the prison of societal expectations and demands and is a free man, rather than falling through the cracks.

I've interviewed hard-core homeless people, and many of them LIKE the way they live. They have no responsibilities to anyone other than themselves, they have no expectations, they have no bills, no jobs, no schedules and nothing to keep them from doing pretty much exactly as they please. They are mostly extremely adverse to authority and being told what to do by others, and just want to be left alone. They are some of the freest people in the US, and they are free by choice. They pay no taxes, they have no mortgages or car payments, and they mostly get along quite nicely on a minimum amount of "stuff" which everyone else is burdened with. In many ways they live an enviable life of as near to absolute liberty as one can experience in this country.

Sometimes...too often in fact, "lavish care and treatment" can be a worse prison than sleeping rough, for the person who is simply incapable or unwilling to take on the sorts of responsibilities and obligations that society seems to demand of everyone.

[Rum]

Seth, where did you learn to speak balderdash so eloquently.

[Seth]

Seth, where did you learn to speak balderdash so eloquently.

Where did you learn to stick your head so far up your ass?

[maiforpeace]

Most of the long term homeless have mental disorders ,and yes more mental health professionals should have been involved but they tend to be the untreatable disruptive patients or just never diagnosed ,some people will always slip through the net . It is easy to demonize them and this Government seems to be happy to remove frontline services so the gaps in the net are much much bigger .

It just seems strange that someone would write an article which praises the lavish treatment and care that are being canceled by using as example number 1 a person who slipped through the cracks.

I think it's much more likely that he escaped from the rat-race and the prison of societal expectations and demands and is a free man, rather than falling through the cracks.

I've interviewed hard-core homeless people, and many of them LIKE the way they live. They have no responsibilities to anyone other than themselves, they have no expectations, they have no bills, no jobs, no schedules and nothing to keep them from doing pretty much exactly as they please. They are mostly extremely adverse to authority and being told what to do by others, and just want to be left alone. They are some of the freest people in the US, and they are free by choice. They pay no taxes, they have no mortgages or car payments, and they mostly get along quite nicely on a minimum amount of "stuff" which everyone else is burdened with. In many ways they live an enviable life of as near to absolute liberty as one can experience in this country.

Sometimes...too often in fact, "lavish care and treatment" can be a worse prison than sleeping rough, for the person who is simply incapable or unwilling to take on the sorts of responsibilities and obligations that society seems to demand of everyone.

Since we have such a nice climate, we have a pretty large homeless population here in Santa Cruz that I interact with regularly. I'm known to some of them as 'the bag lady' because on occasion I set up shop in a local shelter and sew extensions to their sleeping bags so they can cover their heads while sleeping outside. What you write is true...many of them do prefer their homelessness over living in a shelter that asks nothing more from them than to perhaps adhere to a curfew. I would not disagree that the life many of them live is pretty free...if I wasn't so attached to my comforts, it's not a terrible existence, and in many ways would be preferable to living in a shelter since you do have more privacy too.

[MarkS]

Seth, i wonder do the homeless people you have interviewed get handouts from the government - or maybe private charitable organizations?

Also I have a hard time recognizing the UK from your descriptions of it! I think most people here would be puzzled by your description of it as socialist, especially when compared to some other European countries. I've never been to the States but it's our impression here that it's Americans who are uptight, mainly about sex - that superbowl Janet Jackson incident for example would have have raised nothing more than a loud guffaw here - but I digress.

Homeless people freeze to death in the winter. Many have mental health problems, many are traumatized veterans who can't deal with civilian life, are alcoholic, drug addicted, females turn to prostitution, in short while there may be a few free spirits out there, most are dependent on outside help and would sink if it weren't there. Most of us here think government should (in conjunction with private charities) try to help.

[Seth]

Most of the long term homeless have mental disorders ,and yes more mental health professionals should have been involved but they tend to be the untreatable disruptive patients or just never diagnosed ,some people will always slip through the net . It is easy to demonize them and this Government seems to be happy to remove frontline services so the gaps in the net are much much bigger .

It just seems strange that someone would write an article which praises the lavish treatment and care that are being canceled by using as example number 1 a person who slipped through the cracks.

I think it's much more likely that he escaped from the rat-race and the prison of societal expectations and demands and is a free man, rather than falling through the cracks.

I've interviewed hard-core homeless people, and many of them LIKE the way they live. They have no responsibilities to anyone other than themselves, they have no expectations, they have no bills, no jobs, no schedules and nothing to keep them from doing pretty much exactly as they please. They are mostly extremely adverse to authority and being told what to do by others, and just want to be left alone. They are some of the freest people in the US, and they are free by choice. They pay no taxes, they have no mortgages or car payments, and they mostly get along quite nicely on a minimum amount of "stuff" which everyone else is burdened with. In many ways they live an enviable life of as near to absolute liberty as one can experience in this country.

Sometimes...too often in fact, "lavish care and treatment" can be a worse prison than sleeping rough, for the person who is simply incapable or unwilling to take on the sorts of responsibilities and obligations that society seems to demand of everyone.

Since we have such a nice climate, we have a pretty large homeless population here in Santa Cruz that I interact with regularly. I'm known to some of them as 'the bag lady' because on occasion I set up shop in a local shelter and sew extensions to their sleeping bags so they can cover their heads while sleeping outside. What you write is true...many of them do prefer their homelessness over living in a shelter that asks nothing more from them than to perhaps adhere to a curfew. I would not disagree that the life many of them live is pretty free...if I wasn't so attached to my comforts, it's not a terrible existence, and in many ways would be preferable to living in a shelter since you do have more privacy too.

A big part of the problem with the hard-core homeless is that most shelters require much more than merely adhering to a curfew. The biggest obstacle is sobriety. Very few shelters will accept intoxicated clients. Nor will most shelters allow couples to be together, demanding sexual segregation and abstinence. Nor will most shelters allow pets, and many homeless have dogs or cats as companions and will not give them up. I completely understand and sympathize with that and never would have given my dog up to a shelter, no matter how homeless and destitute I was. I would have fed him and starved myself, and I would have killed anyone who tried to take him from me by force.

The most successful program they have in Colorado Springs, which resulted from the Council's determination to clean up the homeless camps along Fountain Creek, was subsidizing motel rooms for homeless persons and families that allowed them to live like the rest of us, on their own terms, without all the attempts to "rehabilitate" them.

[Seth]

Seth, i wonder do the homeless people you have interviewed get handouts from the government - or maybe private charitable organizations?

Some do. Most take meals and other donations from private charitable organizations. Back before they cleaned out the homeless camps along the creek and made it illegal to camp out, my editor and his sons borrowed my pickup truck to deliver a load of firewood to the camps during a cold snap with sub-zero temperatures. Many people donated directly to the homeless, preferring not to give money to organizations that divert a portion of the donations to administrative costs.

Also I have a hard time recognizing the UK from your descriptions of it! I think most people here would be puzzled by your description of it as socialist, especially when compared to some other European countries. I've never been to the States but it's our impression here that it's Americans who are uptight, mainly about sex - that superbowl Janet Jackson incident for example would have have raised nothing more than a loud guffaw here - but I digress.

Socialism always looks good to the proletarian dependent class, from the inside. But most of them have no understanding of how the entitlement programs they depend on actually get paid for.

Homeless people freeze to death in the winter.

Only rarely enough that it generally makes the news when they do so. The reality is that when the weather gets brutal enough to kill, outreach programs and shelters go into overdrive to shelter people till the cold abates. Keep in mind that here in the US, there is a significant voluntary aspect to exposure to cold weather. Those who don't care for the cold can migrate to warmer climes. The hard-core homeless in Colorado are largely here by choice.

Many have mental health problems, many are traumatized veterans who can't deal with civilian life, are alcoholic, drug addicted, females turn to prostitution, in short while there may be a few free spirits out there, most are dependent on outside help and would sink if it weren't there. Most of us here think government should (in conjunction with private charities) try to help.

If people want help, they can always ask for help. There are plenty of charitable organizations out there to help, and that should be how such things are done.

[Rob]

I swear I smell a Randian or two in here...

[Atheist-Lite]

The rich aren't working in favour of the poor. In this kind of circumstance it really is up to the poor to kill the rich and get some new rich in who will work for them. That is the lesson of history and really we need a bit of food inflation to get everyone in the squeezed middle on board with this bloody revolution that's coming?

[Feck]

I swear I smell a Randian or two in here...

I think that's bullshit you can smell

[floppit]

I volunteered through 2 winters for a rough sleeper supper at Emmanuel House (for the nottinghamites!).

The supper night only ran through winter and the issues were often immediate, soaked bedding, sub zero temperatures, the council closing public loos.

I used to muse that if you asked anyone present with a significant physical disability to leave a few would leave, the deaf bloke, the one on crutches and a couple less regulars likewise impaired. Then if I asked again would those with a learning disability please go, more would leave, the 20 something who carries a colouring book and goes from one boyfriend to the next - all street sleepers, and a couple others maybe just as effected but less obvious without the crayons! Then if I asked that all those with severe MH problems go one of my faves would be offski, I first worked there while pregnant and used to reply (as you do) when he spoke to me, I don't think I ever stopped replying but I did learn he was talking to someone I couldn't see not me. After having Munch, the second winter he said something that pulled me up short - it seemed real, I asked what he'd said and he DEFINITELY asked after the baby! The one and only time he genuinely spoke to me, very brief, once I replied he talked nonsense again. The guy whoo kept missing his dinner washing his hands would have to go and the one that sat scared at the back. I think a fair portion of the others too, those with frequent suicide attempts, etc etc.

By this point there would only be a few left in the day centre. If I then asked can those who grew up an care, people who can't read and those fresh out the nick please leave - I think someone or even 2 or 3 would be left, although I wouldn't bet much on it.

Obviously that I worked hard winters will have flavoured those I saw, perhaps those that just prefer a free life winter in. Issues like addiction were rife, fucking rife, so was rejection of authority but issues like these spread faster and harder amongst the most vulnerable - the girl with the crayons used smack and there's nothing so unusual about that, not in that world.

I think people see the self damaging behaviour and conclude it holds the explanation needed, a hot meal won't change it so cut the hot meal and the person will change. That (to me) is intolerably ignorant of the variety and causes of people 'dropping out' - especially during wet, sub zero winter. Giving someone a meal is just that, it's a hot meal, a warm chair for an hour or two, a chance to see the outreach nurse, maybe get dry socks. To make that illegal - to outlaw it, is despotic.

[devogue]

You are a dickhead Seth.

Pen, please note that personal attacks are against the rules.

[Pensioner]

You are a dickhead Seth.

Pen, please note that personal attacks are against the rules.

Have you heard seth preach? He sounds like a catholic priest on steroids, Monty Python could not do a better job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_Vs06Z1Du8

[Warren Dew]

Homeless people freeze to death in the winter.

As Mai pointed out, climate is an important factor. Here in Boston, homeless people who don't seek shelter would likely freeze over the winter. In Santa Clara, I can imagine a good sleeping bag might be sufficient.

[Seth]

You are a dickhead Seth.

Pen, please note that personal attacks are against the rules.

Have you heard seth preach? He sounds like a catholic priest on steroids, Monty Python could not do a better job.

What does that have to do with violating the rules here? If you don't like preaching, you are perfectly capable of fucking off elsewhere, aren't you?