US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

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US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:13 pm

The House voted Thursday to dethrone nine White House “czars.”

Republicans successfully added an amendment to the continuing resolution that would leave President Barack Obama’s senior advisers on policy issues including health care, energy and others out of a job.

The vote was 249-179.

Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.) offered the amendment that blocks funding for various policy advisers to combat what he called “a very disturbing proliferation of czars” under Obama.

“These unappointed, unaccountable people who are literally running a shadow government, heading up these little fiefdoms that nobody can really seem to identify where they are or what they’re doing,” Scalise said Thursday. “But we do know that they’re wielding vast amounts of power.”

The jobs on the chopping block: White House-appointed advisers on health care, energy and climate, green jobs, urban affairs, the closure of the Guantanamo Bay detention center, oversight of TARP executive compensation, diversity at the Federal Communications Commission and the auto industry manufacturing policy.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/02 ... z1EK7hN8DR

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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Ian » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:39 pm

And the House makes an arse out of itself yet again.

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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:40 pm

If I've said it once, I've said it 1,000 times. They oughta have their pay halved, at least.

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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Ian » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:46 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:If I've said it once, I've said it 1,000 times. They oughta have their pay halved, at least.
Congress? Sounds good, except then they might become even more dependent on the "contributions" they receive from lobbyists and wealthy constituents. :?

Sheesh, this story is dumb. Having point-men on the President's staff to focus on and tackle tough issues is a perfectly reasonable idea. It's about the delegation of work, and ensuring expert advice is brought to the President's ears. The White House Chief of Staff is an unelected position that does not require Senate approval - does he constitute a "shadow government" as well and require removal? FFS.

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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Rob » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:48 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:If I've said it once, I've said it 1,000 times. They oughta have their pay halved, at least.
:+1-sad:

They are firing specialists on serious issues and labeling them czars? I don't get how a set of people can be this misguided.
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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Warren Dew » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:57 pm

Rob wrote:They are firing specialists on serious issues and labeling them czars? I don't get how a set of people can be this misguided.
Obama was the one labeling them "czars".

This is a excellent step in the right direction. One fundamental way our government avoids getting out of control is that the more powerful appointed positions in the administration require consent from Congress. If Obama feels these positions are needed, he needs to propose and get passed the legislation that makes them work like other political appointments - and then get Senate consent for his specific appointments.

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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Ian » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:49 pm

Warren Dew wrote:
Rob wrote:They are firing specialists on serious issues and labeling them czars? I don't get how a set of people can be this misguided.
Obama was the one labeling them "czars".

This is a excellent step in the right direction. One fundamental way our government avoids getting out of control is that the more powerful appointed positions in the administration require consent from Congress. If Obama feels these positions are needed, he needs to propose and get passed the legislation that makes them work like other political appointments - and then get Senate consent for his specific appointments.
You may be confusing "the President" with "Obama". I would've made the same case for Bush (who had his own point-men, aka czars) even though I hated Bush's guts. The President can hire whomever he likes to an advisory position on his staff. There have been White House "czars" for decades.

How about the press secretary? The White House Council? The head of legislative affairs? An entire battery of senior staff? You want none of them to be able to assist the President without being confirmed by the Senate? If you want to see the entire government come to a standstill in between an election and an inauguration, that'd be a great policy. Otherwise, it sucks.

The GOP House passed this for the same reason they passed their bill to overturn the "job-killing" health care bill: to take a jab at Obama. If this bill had a snowball's chance in hell of actually being passed, even the Republicans in the house wouldn't have drafted it in the first place.

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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:19 pm

Article II. Section 2. “He (the President) shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consults, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein provided for, and which shall be established by law; but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.”
Any claim of authority by an executive actor must be founded in law. Article VI of the Constitution recognizes three sources of federal law: the Constitution, statutes, and treaties. The only executive actor in whom the Constitution directly vests legal authority is the President. Several of the President’s specific constitutional powers are almost certainly not subject to delegation. It is highly doubtful whether anyone but the President may sign a bill, veto a bill, issue a pardon, appoint an officer, or make a treaty, for example. It is also quite doubtful whether the President may delegate the authority, conveyed by the Vesting Clause of Article II, to oversee and direct the subordinates who perform the executive functions of government. In any event, I do not understand that the President claims to have delegated to anyone any of the powers vested in him by the Constitution, nor that any of this recent predecessors did so. As a result, in general any executive actor other than the President who claims legal authority must rest that claim on a statute.

One implication of this reasoning is that any member of the White House staff, whatever the official or unofficial title of that staff member, who does not have statutory authority does not have any legal power. A member of the White House staff who is referred to for descriptive purposes as a Tsar but who has no statutory authority cannot take actions with any legal effect.

The Appointments Clause of Article II provides that officers of the United States are to be appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the
Senate, but that if Congress so prescribes inferior officers may be appointed by the President alone, the heads of departments, or the courts of law.

So, if these folks are going to have any significant authority, as opposed to ministerial employee or inferior officer, it would seem we need a statute granting that authority.

Looking at a concrete example -- Why does President Obama need a “Special Envoy for Climate Change”? The Climate Czar reports to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, but we already have the Environmental Protection Agency and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration that includes the National Weather Service. What exactly does the Climate Czar do and why? If he has no authority, what are we paying him for? We have an energy and environment czar who is reportedly coordinating policy in the same area as the “climate change” czar despite the fact that we have both a Department of Energy and an Environmental Protection Agency. Then there is the "green jobs" czar. And, what about the "pay czar?" Who was that? Feinberg? He had authority to set the pay scale for executives at companies getting federal aid - but, where did he get that authority from?

Early on in the Obama administration Senator Byrd wrote to Obama these appointments violate both the constitutional system of checks and balances and the constitutional separation of powers, and he wrote that it was an attempt to evade congressional oversight.

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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Warren Dew » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:15 pm

Ian wrote:I would've made the same case for Bush (who had his own point-men, aka czars) even though I hated Bush's guts. The President can hire whomever he likes to an advisory position on his staff. There have been White House "czars" for decades.
In practice, these are not advisory positions; they are executive positions. For example, Obama's consumer credit "czar" is drafting regulations, an executive function that should properly be left to the cabinet members.

And of course I opposed Bush's use of similar techniques, which he used primarily in the area of domestic oppression under the guise of terrorism security. This is not a partisan issue; it's an issue of proper constitutional governance.
How about the press secretary? The White House Council? The head of legislative affairs? An entire battery of senior staff?
None of these have an executive function; none are drafting regulations. However, if Congress felt they were unnecessary, it would be perfectly legitimate to defund them.

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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Ian » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:32 pm

I'm all for checks & balances and oversight, but none of these guys is going around the backs of the Cabinet, doing things in contradiction to the Secretaries' agendas. They can't. And Cabinet appointments are confirmed by the Senate. Undersecretaries, for example, are delegated to draft regulations and hold plenty of executive functions as per their superiors' policies, but undersecretaries are not confirmed by Congress either, they're appointed. Despite the word czar, their "executive" powers are very limited.

It is in the nature of Congress to want more control over the Executive branch (and vice versa), and it also seems to be in their nature to be paranoid about the Executive branch, which is why checks & balances were set up in the first place. But the term "shadow government" just strikes me as pure hyperbole.

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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Seth » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:41 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
The House voted Thursday to dethrone nine White House “czars.”

Republicans successfully added an amendment to the continuing resolution that would leave President Barack Obama’s senior advisers on policy issues including health care, energy and others out of a job.

The vote was 249-179.

Rep. Steve Scalise (R-La.) offered the amendment that blocks funding for various policy advisers to combat what he called “a very disturbing proliferation of czars” under Obama.

“These unappointed, unaccountable people who are literally running a shadow government, heading up these little fiefdoms that nobody can really seem to identify where they are or what they’re doing,” Scalise said Thursday. “But we do know that they’re wielding vast amounts of power.”

The jobs on the chopping block: White House-appointed advisers on health care, energy and climate, green jobs, urban affairs, the closure of the Guantanamo Bay detention center, oversight of TARP executive compensation, diversity at the Federal Communications Commission and the auto industry manufacturing policy.


Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/02 ... z1EK7hN8DR
Great plan, not that it'll make it through the Senate or past the veto pen. But it does put Obama on notice.

Now, if they could just fire Cass Sunstein, the most dangerous man in America....
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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Seth » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:42 pm

Ian wrote:I'm all for checks & balances and oversight, but none of these guys is going around the backs of the Cabinet, doing things in contradiction to the Secretaries' agendas. They can't. And Cabinet appointments are confirmed by the Senate. Undersecretaries, for example, are delegated to draft regulations and hold plenty of executive functions as per their superiors' policies, but undersecretaries are not confirmed by Congress either, they're appointed. Despite the word czar, their "executive" powers are very limited.

It is in the nature of Congress to want more control over the Executive branch (and vice versa), and it also seems to be in their nature to be paranoid about the Executive branch, which is why checks & balances were set up in the first place. But the term "shadow government" just strikes me as pure hyperbole.
It's not hyperbole at all. Just look at the EPA's disdain for the Congress. That should NEVER happen.
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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Seth » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:47 pm

Warren Dew wrote:
Rob wrote:They are firing specialists on serious issues and labeling them czars? I don't get how a set of people can be this misguided.
Obama was the one labeling them "czars".

This is a excellent step in the right direction. One fundamental way our government avoids getting out of control is that the more powerful appointed positions in the administration require consent from Congress. If Obama feels these positions are needed, he needs to propose and get passed the legislation that makes them work like other political appointments - and then get Senate consent for his specific appointments.
Correct. And the whole intent and purpose of the Progressive superstructure that's being erected is to bypass Congress and make it irrelevant using the regulatory authority that Congress has already unwisely vested in government agencies like the EPA.

Progressivism is ALL ABOUT creating the Executive State, wherein all decisions, regulations and enforcement are made by functionaries appointed by the President, who are civil-service bureaucrats who are essentially immune from being fired. Woodrow Wilson sets it all out in his writings, and the Progressives have been working diligently towards the goal of making Congress irrelevant for a century now.
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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Atheist-Lite » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:50 pm

America needs Camerons Big Society. It is brilliant. Small government, big people. If you don't like the evidence then shut it down. :smoke:
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Re: US House of Representatives Votes to Fire Obama's Czars

Post by Ian » Fri Feb 18, 2011 6:55 pm

Seth wrote:
Ian wrote: But the term "shadow government" just strikes me as pure hyperbole.
It's not hyperbole at all. Just look at the EPA's disdain for the Congress. That should NEVER happen.
Oh? I'd wager there isn't a federal agency in existence that doesn't hold a fair amount of disdain for Congress, including ones that are independent of the Executive Branch (you think the FDA loves Congress?). And that's fine, because Congress does not equal the federal government any more than the President equals the federal government.

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