Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Seth » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:36 pm

.Morticia. wrote:The First Ammendment is about practices as they pertain to worship and devotion

NOT doing whatever you like in the NAME of religion

Big difference.
Depends on what you are doing is a part of the religious devotion or not. And guess what, YOU don't get to determine what somebody else believes or practices. Nor does the government.
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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Animavore » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:38 pm

Seth wrote:
Evidently Paul got it from God. If you disagree, feel free to take it up with Paul, or with God, or even the Pope.
[my underline]

Not evidently at all. And no, I won't take it up with the Pope. I don't give a shit about the Church. But that doesn't mean that Catholic women can't challenge it. For instance, it would not be unreasonable for a Christian to point out that Jesus, himself, never said it.
That's why the Protestants have women priests. Because women challenged it. Many Catholic Irish women are challenging it, too. There's a really strong move towards it at the moment with people staging walk outs on an already weakening church. This movement started, surprisingly, by the old. And I see no reason why, if they keep pushing it, they won't get it.
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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Gallstones » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:57 pm

I think doctrine--Catholic in this case--can only be changed from within. That means that if one is not Catholic, one may hold any opinion about Catholicism one wishes, but it is not your place to try and make changes to Catholicism. That is the purview of Catholics only.
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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Seth » Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:03 am

Animavore wrote:
Seth wrote:
Evidently Paul got it from God. If you disagree, feel free to take it up with Paul, or with God, or even the Pope.
[my underline]

Not evidently at all. And no, I won't take it up with the Pope. I don't give a shit about the Church. But that doesn't mean that Catholic women can't challenge it. For instance, it would not be unreasonable for a Christian to point out that Jesus, himself, never said it.
That's why the Protestants have women priests. Because women challenged it. Many Catholic Irish women are challenging it, too. There's a really strong move towards it at the moment with people staging walk outs on an already weakening church. This movement started, surprisingly, by the old. And I see no reason why, if they keep pushing it, they won't get it.
Well, they're free to petition, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. But the actual point is that it's only up to the Pope and the church to make such decisions, which cannot be imposed by the State under any sort of "anti-discrimination" rubric.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Animavore » Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:10 am

Seth wrote:
Animavore wrote:
Seth wrote:
Evidently Paul got it from God. If you disagree, feel free to take it up with Paul, or with God, or even the Pope.
[my underline]

Not evidently at all. And no, I won't take it up with the Pope. I don't give a shit about the Church. But that doesn't mean that Catholic women can't challenge it. For instance, it would not be unreasonable for a Christian to point out that Jesus, himself, never said it.
That's why the Protestants have women priests. Because women challenged it. Many Catholic Irish women are challenging it, too. There's a really strong move towards it at the moment with people staging walk outs on an already weakening church. This movement started, surprisingly, by the old. And I see no reason why, if they keep pushing it, they won't get it.
Well, they're free to petition, but I wouldn't get my hopes up. But the actual point is that it's only up to the Pope and the church to make such decisions, which cannot be imposed by the State under any sort of "anti-discrimination" rubric.
Well I never said otherwise.
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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by .Morticia. » Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:53 am

Seth wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:The First Ammendment is about practices as they pertain to worship and devotion

NOT doing whatever you like in the NAME of religion

Big difference.
Depends on what you are doing is a part of the religious devotion or not. And guess what, YOU don't get to determine what somebody else believes or practices. Nor does the government.

I never said I wanted to. So fuck off implying that I want to impinge on people's freedom.

You are a very abusive person.

Nearly every word that drips off your fingers and onto your slimy keyboard are lies about other posters.

That my friend is harrassment with intent to silence people, ie, oppress them and quash their freedom of speech.
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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Gallstones » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:25 am

.Morticia. wrote:
Seth wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:The First Ammendment is about practices as they pertain to worship and devotion

NOT doing whatever you like in the NAME of religion

Big difference.
Depends on what you are doing is a part of the religious devotion or not. And guess what, YOU don't get to determine what somebody else believes or practices. Nor does the government.

I never said I wanted to. So fuck off implying that I want to impinge on people's freedom.

You are a very abusive person.

Nearly every word that drips off your fingers and onto your slimy keyboard are lies about other posters.

That my friend is harrassment with intent to silence people, ie, oppress them and quash their freedom of speech.
No.
You are taking things personally.

Seth can speak for himself----and yet here I go, as I have done so many fucking times before......somebody fucking shoot me.

Seth doesn't want to silence, that is so not right. He wants people to speak their minds and to do the same as well.
Seth can correct me if I'm wrong.


Maybe I am just stupid?
Don't answer that. I don't care.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010

The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter

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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by .Morticia. » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:34 am

Thanks gall but I can read what he has written.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. ~ Marx

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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Seth » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:39 am

.Morticia. wrote:
Seth wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:The First Ammendment is about practices as they pertain to worship and devotion

NOT doing whatever you like in the NAME of religion

Big difference.
Depends on what you are doing is a part of the religious devotion or not. And guess what, YOU don't get to determine what somebody else believes or practices. Nor does the government.

I never said I wanted to. So fuck off implying that I want to impinge on people's freedom.
It's a rhetorical statement not intended to be an actual accusation, as any rational person would understand. D'oh! :doh:
You are a very abusive person.
No, just provocative. I can be abusive, believe me. You haven't experienced any "abuse" from me, nor will you. Scorn, yes. Derision, very probably. But you have only yourself and your inability or unwillingness to rationally and reasonably engage the debate rather than taking pot-shots from the peanut gallery for that.
Nearly every word that drips off your fingers and onto your slimy keyboard are lies about other posters.
I challenge you to cite a single lie I've told about anyone here, ever.
That my friend is harrassment with intent to silence people, ie, oppress them and quash their freedom of speech.
Nobody's stopping you or anyone else from speaking. I actually wish you'd do so with something other than pabulum and one-liner ad hom insults.

If you can't take the heat however, nobody's demanding that you participate here. Suit yourself, but don't expect me to pander to the lowest common denominator. I assume that everyone here is an adult and is capable of defending their own positions vigorously.

So far you've been an exception to that rule.

When all you do is post jabs and one-liner insults rather than engaging in any sort of substantive debate in response to the effort I put into my posts, you deserve nothing more than scorn. If there's any trolling going on, not that it matters, it's coming from you.

If you've got something substantive to say, then by all means for the love of Christ, say it, and quit carping about having your parsimonious twaddle harshly criticized. You'll find that if you put some scholarship and reason into your replies, you'll get a lot more respect from me for your opinions.

Now get on with it or bugger off, you're beginning to bore me, and trust me, that takes some doing. :coffee:
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Seth » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:41 am

Gallstones wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:
Seth wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:The First Ammendment is about practices as they pertain to worship and devotion

NOT doing whatever you like in the NAME of religion

Big difference.
Depends on what you are doing is a part of the religious devotion or not. And guess what, YOU don't get to determine what somebody else believes or practices. Nor does the government.

I never said I wanted to. So fuck off implying that I want to impinge on people's freedom.

You are a very abusive person.

Nearly every word that drips off your fingers and onto your slimy keyboard are lies about other posters.

That my friend is harrassment with intent to silence people, ie, oppress them and quash their freedom of speech.
No.
You are taking things personally.

Seth can speak for himself----and yet here I go, as I have done so many fucking times before......somebody fucking shoot me.

Seth doesn't want to silence, that is so not right. He wants people to speak their minds and to do the same as well.
Seth can correct me if I'm wrong.


Maybe I am just stupid?
Don't answer that. I don't care.
I'll answer it because I do care. You're not stupid, by any stretch of the imagination. :hugs:
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Gallstones » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:23 am

Seth wrote:
Gallstones wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:
Seth wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:The First Ammendment is about practices as they pertain to worship and devotion

NOT doing whatever you like in the NAME of religion

Big difference.
Depends on what you are doing is a part of the religious devotion or not. And guess what, YOU don't get to determine what somebody else believes or practices. Nor does the government.

I never said I wanted to. So fuck off implying that I want to impinge on people's freedom.

You are a very abusive person.

Nearly every word that drips off your fingers and onto your slimy keyboard are lies about other posters.

That my friend is harrassment with intent to silence people, ie, oppress them and quash their freedom of speech.
No.
You are taking things personally.

Seth can speak for himself----and yet here I go, as I have done so many fucking times before......somebody fucking shoot me.

Seth doesn't want to silence, that is so not right. He wants people to speak their minds and to do the same as well.
Seth can correct me if I'm wrong.


Maybe I am just stupid?
Don't answer that. I don't care.
I'll answer it because I do care. You're not stupid, by any stretch of the imagination. :hugs:
Don't encourage me. ;)
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010

The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter

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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Gallstones » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:25 am

.Morticia. wrote:Thanks gall but I can read what he has written.
I think I like you---even though you are a communist. :mrgreen:
I'm libertarian that way.
But here’s the thing about rights. They’re not actually supposed to be voted on. That’s why they’re called rights. ~Rachel Maddow August 2010

The Second Amendment forms a fourth branch of government (an armed citizenry) in case the government goes mad. ~Larry Nutter

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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Ronja » Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:38 am

.Morticia. wrote:Thanks gall but I can read what he has written.
Morticia, my impression of the Seth persona's "attitude" (if a persona can be said to have attitudes) leans more in the direction of your interpretation than that of Gallsotenes'. However, you may get some perspective from a thread that dealt very much with how written words "sound" to other people - I certainly did. Do read this before you go any further on your path of irritated/accusatory-sounding reactions: http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 51&start=0 It's a long thread about perceptions and perceived claims about how women vs. men debate (about religion / world view issues). I highly recommend it.

Edit: typo
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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by .Morticia. » Sat Feb 12, 2011 3:26 pm

Gallstones wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:Thanks gall but I can read what he has written.
I think I like you---even though you are a communist. :mrgreen:
I'm libertarian that way.

I am also a libertarian

one is about economics, the other governence
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. ~ Marx

Do you really think it is weakness that yields to temptation? I tell you that there are terrible temptations which it requires strength, strength and courage to yield to. ~ Oscar Wilde

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Re: Catholic Mass 'sexist and elitist', say priests.

Post by Seth » Sat Feb 12, 2011 5:28 pm

.Morticia. wrote:
Gallstones wrote:
.Morticia. wrote:Thanks gall but I can read what he has written.
I think I like you---even though you are a communist. :mrgreen:
I'm libertarian that way.

I am also a libertarian

one is about economics, the other governence
Okay, this is an...interesting...claim, given the fact that Libertarian economics absolutely and utterly preclude state central planning or seizure of private property or mandatory labor for the benefit of the collective, among other things.

I'm dying to find out how you resolve that fundamental conflict.

Do tell...
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

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