Gun Control - Good, Bad, or Ugly?

[Feck]

So the Glock she says she owns didn't help then ?

[GreyICE]

Let's play spot the correlation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _ownership

Okay, so if someone kills you with a knife, it's not for real? Do you just respawn like it's a video game?

Knife crime is a serious issue, and is certainly a problem in my home town. However, handguns can kill more people, more quickly, at greater range; viz, Arizona recently...

Nice weasel word. You know why you were dishonest - weasel words and a quick appeal to recent events is a definite sign that you don't want to go there.

[Tero]

evil doers are everywhere
http://teroreport.blogspot.com/2011/01/ ... y-but.html

[JimC]

Let's play spot the correlation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _ownership

Okay, so if someone kills you with a knife, it's not for real? Do you just respawn like it's a video game?

Knife crime is a serious issue, and is certainly a problem in my home town. However, handguns can kill more people, more quickly, at greater range; viz, Arizona recently...

Nice weasel word. You know why you were dishonest - weasel words and a quick appeal to recent events is a definite sign that you don't want to go there.

The weasel words comment is bullshit, pure and simple; you were attempting to make a point that knives are also a crime problem, in a way you may have thought was actually witty...

I responded in a totally serious way to your intent to bring up knife crimes as an issue, and agreed with you that they are a serious problem. I then made a valid point of comparison between knives and guns. Unlike FBM, who made a good point about my comparison in his recent post, you added nothing substantive whatsoever to the debate; possibly the level of cognition required is just a little too demanding for you...

And as for calling me dishonest, fuck off...

[mistermack]

Like I said earlier, it's nice to live in a country where loonies with access to guns is extremely rare.
The latest so-called tragedy is a perfect illustration of how totally useless are the present so-called controls.
This guy was banned from college as a looney, turned down by the army, for fuck''s sake, and and could still go out and buy a deadly weapon.
That's not "nice", it's fuckin moronic.
.

[mistermack]

Like I said in the thread about the Arizona incident, I've used a handgun twice to prevent violent crimes against me and my brother.

I know. Bet you didn't know someone was filming it ! :

[GreyICE]

The weasel words comment is bullshit, pure and simple; you were attempting to make a point that knives are also a crime problem, in a way you may have thought was actually witty...

I responded in a totally serious way to your intent to bring up knife crimes as an issue, and agreed with you that they are a serious problem. I then made a valid point of comparison between knives and guns. Unlike FBM, who made a good point about my comparison in his recent post, you added nothing substantive whatsoever to the debate; possibly the level of cognition required is just a little too demanding for you...

And as for calling me dishonest, fuck off...

I call em as I see em. The comparison has always been dishonest. It's trivial to show anything using your exact logic. You know what happened when they made seatbelts mandatory in every car in America? The number of fatalities in cars with seatbelts increased! Clear cause and effect.

If I can use your logic to show that seatbelts kill people, how fucking bad is it? Dishonest? Maybe I was a tad nice.

[Tigger]

The weasel words comment is bullshit, pure and simple; you were attempting to make a point that knives are also a crime problem, in a way you may have thought was actually witty...

I responded in a totally serious way to your intent to bring up knife crimes as an issue, and agreed with you that they are a serious problem. I then made a valid point of comparison between knives and guns. Unlike FBM, who made a good point about my comparison in his recent post, you added nothing substantive whatsoever to the debate; possibly the level of cognition required is just a little too demanding for you...

And as for calling me dishonest, fuck off...

I call em as I see em. The comparison has always been dishonest. It's trivial to show anything using your exact logic. You know what happened when they made seatbelts mandatory in every car in America? The number of fatalities in cars with seatbelts increased! Clear cause and effect.

If I can use your logic to show that seatbelts kill people, how fucking bad is it? Dishonest? Maybe I was a tad nice.

Fatalities caused BY seatbelts? Or something else? If there was a trend towards an increase in fatalities anyway, and seatbelts were compulsory, it stands to reason that there would be such an increase. However: citation.

[Wumbologist]

Let's play spot the correlation-causation fallacy:

Let's play spot the correlation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _ownership

[PsychoSerenity]

Let's play spot the correlation-causation fallacy:

Let's play spot the correlation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... death_rate
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... _ownership

Huh? I made no claims about causation.
But even if I had, I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you saying that a high number of firearm-related deaths cause high gun ownership?

[GreyICE]

Fatalities caused BY seatbelts? Or something else? If there was a trend towards an increase in fatalities anyway, and seatbelts were compulsory, it stands to reason that there would be such an increase. However: citation.

And were the murders caused by guns? No. Of course not. Modern guns do not fire without a trigger pull. Even if they did, they are rarely lying around in a position to actually shoot someone.

Murders are caused by murderers. Guns are a weapon for them to use. So are all sorts of things. A good comparison would be to see if gun ownership rate tracks with murders. It's a tad shit, because it's logical that in violent areas people would buy guns to defend themselves, but it's better than the original garbage. Better would be to see if something like lifting the Washington DC gun ban resulted in a long-term increase in murder rates.

Declaring some type of murder different from some other type of murder just leads to the 'If we go from 30% of the cars having seatbelts to 100% of the cars having seatbelts, more people die in cars with seatbelts than did before the increase' which is the amazing statistic Jim arrived at.

[JimC]

Fatalities caused BY seatbelts? Or something else? If there was a trend towards an increase in fatalities anyway, and seatbelts were compulsory, it stands to reason that there would be such an increase. However: citation.

And were the murders caused by guns? No. Of course not. Modern guns do not fire without a trigger pull. Even if they did, they are rarely lying around in a position to actually shoot someone.

Murders are caused by murderers. Guns are a weapon for them to use. So are all sorts of things. A good comparison would be to see if gun ownership rate tracks with murders. It's a tad shit, because it's logical that in violent areas people would buy guns to defend themselves, but it's better than the original garbage. Better would be to see if something like lifting the Washington DC gun ban resulted in a long-term increase in murder rates.

Declaring some type of murder different from some other type of murder just leads to the 'If we go from 30% of the cars having seatbelts to 100% of the cars having seatbelts, more people die in cars with seatbelts than did before the increase' which is the amazing statistic Jim arrived at.

What the fuck? I arrived at no sort of statistic whatsoever! I merely noted the ability of guns to kill more people, and at greater range, than knives. Nothing other than that, which is not a statistic, simply a valid point of difference between 2 weapons. Whether it is a useful fact in the context of debate about gun control others can judge...

This is the post of mine which got your knickers in a twist...

Knife crime is a serious issue, and is certainly a problem in my home town. However, handguns can kill more people, more quickly, at greater range; viz, Arizona recently...

Absolutely dripping with statistics, innit...

[Tigger]

I can't be arsed with it, Jim.

[GreyICE]

What the fuck? I arrived at no sort of statistic whatsoever! I merely noted the ability of guns to kill more people, and at greater range, than knives. Nothing other than that, which is not a statistic, simply a valid point of difference between 2 weapons. Whether it is a useful fact in the context of debate about gun control others can judge...

This is the post of mine which got your knickers in a twist...

Knife crime is a serious issue, and is certainly a problem in my home town. However, handguns can kill more people, more quickly, at greater range; viz, Arizona recently...

Absolutely dripping with statistics, innit...

For reference, when you go out of your way to defend idiotic statistics, then try and claim you don't own them because someone else made the original post, I don't believe you. Lets pin it down: was the comparison in question fucking idiotic, or do you want to defend it?

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]