Soldiers: heroes?

[Robert_S]

I don't get not turning out to vote. There have got to be hundreds of qualified candidates out there who could either win elections or be productive gadflies raising issues that the mainstream candidates won't address. In the US if you get a mere 5% of the vote, you're on the ballot next time around. Look at what Jello Biafra did in SF back in the day.

Also; regardless of whether or not Ian is right, most voters assume apathy on the non participators. If all else fails, why not just run as the guy you would turn out to vote for.

Because you assume most voter assume apathy in non voters also doesn't make it true. The whole, "people who don't vote are lazy/stupid/apathetic etc" is simply the "party line" of those who wish that "elections" weren't the sham they really are.

It is believable. Show up and do something. Even if it is to turn in a ballot which is blank except for the local dog catcher.

I don't get not turning out to vote. There have got to be hundreds of qualified candidates out there who could either win elections or be productive gadflies raising issues that the mainstream candidates won't address. In the US if you get a mere 5% of the vote, you're on the ballot next time around. Look at what Jello Biafra did in SF back in the day.

Also; regardless of whether or not Ian is right, most voters assume apathy on the non participators. If all else fails, why not just run as the guy you would turn out to vote for.

I voted last time and sadly ,even though I knew my vote would make no actual difference , I voted for the party that that formed a coalition with the most hated party ,sold out all it's principles lied to us ,and generally should be deported to Elephant island .

Same thing happened to me last time I voted, the "left leaning " NDP party got elected and...oohh big surprise turned out to have the same policies as the "center" party and the "right" party...shocker there.

Vote for an even more liberal party, even if it is probably not going to get elected.

Feck and all of the UK: Bum rush the liberal show. Don't allow then to speak in public without a large, but peaceful disruption.

Regardless, it's still a popularity contest and what is popular can be influenced.

It's much more complex than that. What is "popular" is most often influenced by those with the power to influence, i.e. multinationals/those with money.

The cards are stacked against new parties/platforms/focus groups. I very much agree. But the game theory of it suggests that to make the change we have to get involved and sustain an effort or else it is just as good as standing aside in many ways. So, how to do it is agreed upon, right? And I also agree it's not likely to succeed. But it's still what a concerned citizen should do.

We benefit from several lines in the sand that previous citizens banded together for. It's not unheard of.

There are many many things to do to get involved in politics other than casting a useless ballot once every few years.

It is not an either/or thing.

[sandinista]

No, it is not an either or thing, that is what I was pointing out. "Voting" does not equate to political action. Don't "show up to vote", it only goes to legitimize the process. The more people staying home the better, always looking for a 25 percent voter turnout...someday soon.

[Robert_S]

No, it is not an either or thing, that is what I was pointing out. "Voting" does not equate to political action. Don't "show up to vote", it only goes to legitimize the process. The more people staying home the better, always looking for a 25 percent voter turnout...someday soon.

Then what?

[sandinista]

No, it is not an either or thing, that is what I was pointing out. "Voting" does not equate to political action. Don't "show up to vote", it only goes to legitimize the process. The more people staying home the better, always looking for a 25 percent voter turnout...someday soon.

Then what?

[camoguard]

I get what you're saying, sand. I don't think voting is quite so useless. I'm not sure legitimizing our system is a bad thing. I think we simply need to properly exercise our system. And sure, there are lots of ways to influence the government via amassing an interest group or by befriending influential people or by being the government. But I'm still going to vote. I still have an interest in pushing the buttons I get to push in the process even if I intend to make a living developing software instead of developing government policy.