"No Refusal" Checkpoints - good, bad, or ugly?

[mistermack]

Sure, drink driving is only one factor amongst many, but it is one that is fully controllable by personal decisions, and one most amenable to reducing by appropriate law enforcement, including the random breath testing supported by the majority of people in Oz, and the majority of people on this thread.

People are always ready to impose things on others, if it isn't going to affect them in any way. That's why there is nearly always a majority in favour of the death penalty.
Would the same majority in Oz support random driving tests? I don't think so. Because it might catch THEM out. But if you can't pass it, you shouldn't be driving. The same logic applies.

[Feck]

This isn't about people imposing things on others that don't affect us . Jim drives and is not Teetotal nor am I . This thread was about the refusal of drivers to supply a breath sample . You are the one trying to convince us all that drink driving is acceptable you have twisted and turned offered Strawmen as argument tried distraction by blaming mothers and dog owners and people with friends up as more risk than a drink driver ,you have suggested that drivers with more training are no safer .
You have even tried to explain how there is a conspiracy to make the figures for the risks of drink drivers look worse .

And your justification for overturning all practical ,medical and sensible wisdom is that You haven't killed anyone (yet ).

[mistermack]

And your justification for overturning all practical ,medical and sensible wisdom is that You haven't killed anyone (yet ).

You don't offer any evidence for your claim that all practical , medical and sensible "wisdom" supports your own point of view.
Just you saying it doesn't make it true. It's just windy rhetoric. And 45 years of driving with nobody even scratched proves something. If my driving was regularly SERIOUSLY impaired, you would expect accidents or convictions in such a long period.
And I regularly take a lot of notice, when I read reports of fatal crashes. By FAR the leading pattern is people under thirty, late at night, with four or more people in the car.
It's even getting to the stage where insurance companies are imposing restrictions on the number of passengers newly qualified drivers are insured to carry, after early evening. Newly qualified drivers are THAT dangerous, far more dangerous than someone who is a few points over the limit, tested at random.
.
ie, one passenger only.

[JimC]

Sure, drink driving is only one factor amongst many, but it is one that is fully controllable by personal decisions, and one most amenable to reducing by appropriate law enforcement, including the random breath testing supported by the majority of people in Oz, and the majority of people on this thread.

People are always ready to impose things on others, if it isn't going to affect them in any way. That's why there is nearly always a majority in favour of the death penalty.
Would the same majority in Oz support random driving tests? I don't think so. Because it might catch THEM out. But if you can't pass it, you shouldn't be driving. The same logic applies.

A rather silly comparison. A random breath test is very brief, non-intrusive (one opens the window and blows into the proffered tube...) and has no consequences for those doing the right thing. Random driving tests are the opposite in most respects...

Perhaps the need to pass a driving test to regain a license after it has been suspended would be a useful and practical measure...

Or even when one has reached a certain age...

I find the American reflex "taking away our precious liberties" rant quite amusing, when it is applied to simple, practical issues like this one...

This isn't about people imposing things on others that don't affect us . Jim drives and is not Teetotal nor am I . This thread was about the refusal of drivers to supply a breath sample . You are the one trying to convince us all that drink driving is acceptable you have twisted and turned offered Strawmen as argument tried distraction by blaming mothers and dog owners and people with friends up as more risk than a drink driver ,you have suggested that drivers with more training are no safer .
You have even tried to explain how there is a conspiracy to make the figures for the risks of drink drivers look worse .

And your justification for overturning all practical ,medical and sensible wisdom is that You haven't killed anyone (yet ).

The forum will be shocked, I tell you, shocked! Next you'll be telling us that Dries doesn't mind a drink!

[JimC]

mistermack wrote:

By FAR the leading pattern is people under thirty, late at night, with four or more people in the car.
It's even getting to the stage where insurance companies are imposing restrictions on the number of passengers newly qualified drivers are insured to carry, after early evening. Newly qualified drivers are THAT dangerous, far more dangerous than someone who is a few points over the limit, tested at random.
.
ie, one passenger only.

I'll approach this from 2 directions:

Firstly, a lot of what I read in Australia agrees with the thrust of your first point, that night driving, driving by young males (mostly in the first year of their license...), and driving with a group in a car, are very significant risk indicators for crashes, particularly when taken together. No surprise, in some way, when you think of the psychology of the demographic involved... In response, in Australia, there are restrictions to the number of passengers a 1st year driver may carry, and much of the TV campaigns attempt to reach just that demographic...

However, the fact that these are serious risk factors does not alter the clear danger from driving under the influence. (And by the way, your last sentence is a little strange; do you imply that "a few points over" is somehow different when not tested, or not tested at random?)

I prefer to restrict as much as possible the numbers of drivers whose reflexes have been clearly shown to be impaired by numerous scientific tests...

[Trolldor]

I guess Macintosh drinks and drives or he wouldn't be so defensive.

[normal]

This thread has deteriorated from Quite Silly to Borderline Retarded

[Hermit]

This thread has deteriorated from Quite Silly to Borderline Retarded

Now that you have taken to posting in it, it has definitely become fully retarded.

I think you should go back to shooting tea pots. It's the more normal thing to do, and it's not as boring as rummaging around in threads you have no particular interest in in the first place.

[normal]

This thread has deteriorated from Quite Silly to Borderline Retarded

Now that you have taken to posting in it, it has definitely become fully retarded.

I think you should go back to shooting tea pots. It's the more normal thing to do, and it's not as boring as rummaging around in threads you have no particular interest in in the first place.

Fuck off, you cunt

[Hermit]

This thread has deteriorated from Quite Silly to Borderline Retarded

Now that you have taken to posting in it, it has definitely become fully retarded.

I think you should go back to shooting tea pots. It's the more normal thing to do, and it's not as boring as rummaging around in threads you have no particular interest in in the first place.

Fuck off, you cunt

No!

Naaa naaa na naa na.

[normal]

This thread has deteriorated from Quite Silly to Borderline Retarded

Now that you have taken to posting in it, it has definitely become fully retarded.

I think you should go back to shooting tea pots. It's the more normal thing to do, and it's not as boring as rummaging around in threads you have no particular interest in in the first place.

Fuck off, you cunt

No!

Naaa naaa na naa na.

Ok.

[Hermit]

So, which thread will you bless with your pronouncement from on high next?

The choice is huge.

[normal]

So, which thread will you bless with your pronouncement from on high next?

The choice is huge.

It was light hearted, and posted in the morning fog. Try to ignore it. Harping on about it like this will make me feel bad.

I humbly apologize before your immense being for intruding upon your precious thread with invaluable input you didn't approve of.

[JimC]

I wish I had a home breathalyser unit, just for the lols...

Right now, I estimate 0.09%

I ain't going anywhere!

[Hermit]

It was light hearted, and posted in the morning fog. Try to ignore it. Harping on about it like this will make me feel bad.

I humbly apologize before your immense being for intruding upon your precious thread with invaluable input you didn't approve of.

Awwwww, poor bub.

...and it's actually Coito's precious thread. My own opinion about it is quite akin to yours.