my turn to criticize Cuba

[Coito ergo sum]

so, you want me to sit here and type all the negatives of the "society you like"? again...

Whatever you want - we all know it's better here than in Cuba. That's why they won't let their citizens leave, and nobody wants to go there to live.


Wow, that is one weak ass analysis. "it's better here than in Cuba" :sighsm: Wow, brilliant. Here's another. It's better to live in the suburbs than to be homeless. Genius eh. How bout this, uh...it's better to be a CEO than a janitor.

Well, of course it's true that it's better to live in the suburbs than be homeless. If you're suggesting that that is analogous to "it's better to live in the US than in Cuba," then you're right. You're the one championing Cuba, by propagating myths about it's health care system.

You can post whatever you want about capitalist systems. The fact is, western capitalism makes life in general for the people better than the Cuban system. Or, do you claim otherwise?

[sandinista]

so, you want me to sit here and type all the negatives of the "society you like"? again...

Whatever you want - we all know it's better here than in Cuba. That's why they won't let their citizens leave, and nobody wants to go there to live.


Wow, that is one weak ass analysis. "it's better here than in Cuba" :sighsm: Wow, brilliant. Here's another. It's better to live in the suburbs than to be homeless. Genius eh. How bout this, uh...it's better to be a CEO than a janitor.

Well, of course it's true that it's better to live in the suburbs than be homeless. If you're suggesting that that is analogous to "it's better to live in the US than in Cuba," then you're right. You're the one championing Cuba, by propagating myths about it's health care system.

You can post whatever you want about capitalist systems. The fact is, western capitalism makes life in general for the people better than the Cuban system. Or, do you claim otherwise?

propagating myths I think you may do well by expanding your mind a little.

[Tyrannical]

There are certainly many leftist Marxist priests in Latin America and Cuba, but where they draw the line is that they are generally opposed to dictators. And Castro doesn't take kindly to criticism when it comes to imprisoning his political opponents.

[Coito ergo sum]

so, you want me to sit here and type all the negatives of the "society you like"? again...

Whatever you want - we all know it's better here than in Cuba. That's why they won't let their citizens leave, and nobody wants to go there to live.


Wow, that is one weak ass analysis. "it's better here than in Cuba" :sighsm: Wow, brilliant. Here's another. It's better to live in the suburbs than to be homeless. Genius eh. How bout this, uh...it's better to be a CEO than a janitor.

Well, of course it's true that it's better to live in the suburbs than be homeless. If you're suggesting that that is analogous to "it's better to live in the US than in Cuba," then you're right. You're the one championing Cuba, by propagating myths about it's health care system.

You can post whatever you want about capitalist systems. The fact is, western capitalism makes life in general for the people better than the Cuban system. Or, do you claim otherwise?

propagating myths I think you may do well by expanding your mind a little.

Help me out.

Tell me what I should understand that you think I'm missing.

[sandinista]

That there is always a bigger picture. It's not as easy to say, the US is "capitalist" and Cuba is "socialist" and life is better in the US, therefor capitalism is "better" than socialism. You have to take in a lot more variables. Historical circumstances for instance, not to mention the over 50 year embargo. You are also saying "life in general", do you have proof of this?

[Coito ergo sum]

That there is always a bigger picture. It's not as easy to say, the US is "capitalist" and Cuba is "socialist" and life is better in the US, therefor capitalism is "better" than socialism. You have to take in a lot more variables. Historical circumstances for instance, not to mention the over 50 year embargo. You are also saying "life in general", do you have proof of this?

Well, sure - Cuba is communist, generally speaking. And, the US is fairly capitalist, albeit with a mixed and regulated economy. The European countries are often a bit more toward the socialist side of things. We're not talking pure systems of any kind.

Do I have any proof that life in general is better here in the US than in Cuba?

Well, I think I can conclude as much when we look at the reality that people in Cuba make a few dollars a month - the price of a lunch in the United States. In order to feed their families', Cubans get a monthly ration of food. Something like five pounds of rice, three pounds of beans, five eggs, one chicken, half a pound of coffee, milk for children up to age seven, three packs of cigarettes, and two rolls of toilet paper. No fresh fruits or vegetables are included in their rations. They spend a lot of time standing in line for food. By contrast, Americans have far more food than they need, and it's dirt cheap.

Most Cubans can't afford a car. Most Americans can. Half of all cars in Cuba are Cold War Russian cars.

It's a little traditional joke in Cuba: When the head of a household gets up at dawn in present-day Cuba, he or she only faces two problems: lunch and dinner.

Moonlighting for extra money is a crime in Cuba.

In sections of Havana, less than 1/2 the homes are connected to city sewer systems.

There is no freedom of speech in Cuba. There is no freedom of the press. There is no freedom of assembly. There is no freedom of contract. There is almost no private employment. There is not right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. There are no protections for criminal defendants. The State imprisons many political prisoners and executes some.

There is a reason people get on anything that will float and risk shark infested waters to float to Florida. Can you guess what reason that is?

[sandinista]

That there is always a bigger picture. It's not as easy to say, the US is "capitalist" and Cuba is "socialist" and life is better in the US, therefor capitalism is "better" than socialism. You have to take in a lot more variables. Historical circumstances for instance, not to mention the over 50 year embargo. You are also saying "life in general", do you have proof of this?

Well, sure - Cuba is communist, generally speaking. And, the US is fairly capitalist, albeit with a mixed and regulated economy. The European countries are often a bit more toward the socialist side of things. We're not talking pure systems of any kind.

Do I have any proof that life in general is better here in the US than in Cuba?

Well, I think I can conclude as much when we look at the reality that people in Cuba make a few dollars a month - the price of a lunch in the United States. In order to feed their families', Cubans get a monthly ration of food. Something like five pounds of rice, three pounds of beans, five eggs, one chicken, half a pound of coffee, milk for children up to age seven, three packs of cigarettes, and two rolls of toilet paper. No fresh fruits or vegetables are included in their rations. They spend a lot of time standing in line for food. By contrast, Americans have far more food than they need, and it's dirt cheap.

Most Cubans can't afford a car. Most Americans can. Half of all cars in Cuba are Cold War Russian cars.

It's a little traditional joke in Cuba: When the head of a household gets up at dawn in present-day Cuba, he or she only faces two problems: lunch and dinner.

Moonlighting for extra money is a crime in Cuba.

In sections of Havana, less than 1/2 the homes are connected to city sewer systems.

There is no freedom of speech in Cuba. There is no freedom of the press. There is no freedom of assembly. There is no freedom of contract. There is almost no private employment. There is not right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. There are no protections for criminal defendants. The State imprisons many political prisoners and executes some.

There is a reason people get on anything that will float and risk shark infested waters to float to Florida. Can you guess what reason that is?

so, no new cars then? OK all you're "freedom" this and that is baloney. Of course, like I said, the US is a better situation for some Cubans (or so they believe), but it has more to do with historical circumstances than capitalism/socialism.

[Coito ergo sum]

That there is always a bigger picture. It's not as easy to say, the US is "capitalist" and Cuba is "socialist" and life is better in the US, therefor capitalism is "better" than socialism. You have to take in a lot more variables. Historical circumstances for instance, not to mention the over 50 year embargo. You are also saying "life in general", do you have proof of this?

Well, sure - Cuba is communist, generally speaking. And, the US is fairly capitalist, albeit with a mixed and regulated economy. The European countries are often a bit more toward the socialist side of things. We're not talking pure systems of any kind.

Do I have any proof that life in general is better here in the US than in Cuba?

Well, I think I can conclude as much when we look at the reality that people in Cuba make a few dollars a month - the price of a lunch in the United States. In order to feed their families', Cubans get a monthly ration of food. Something like five pounds of rice, three pounds of beans, five eggs, one chicken, half a pound of coffee, milk for children up to age seven, three packs of cigarettes, and two rolls of toilet paper. No fresh fruits or vegetables are included in their rations. They spend a lot of time standing in line for food. By contrast, Americans have far more food than they need, and it's dirt cheap.

Most Cubans can't afford a car.

Most Americans can. Half of all cars in Cuba are Cold War Russian cars.

It's a little traditional joke in Cuba: When the head of a household gets up at dawn in present-day Cuba, he or she only faces two problems: lunch and dinner.

Moonlighting for extra money is a crime in Cuba.

In sections of Havana, less than 1/2 the homes are connected to city sewer systems.

There is no freedom of speech in Cuba. There is no freedom of the press. There is no freedom of assembly. There is no freedom of contract. There is almost no private employment. There is not right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. There are no protections for criminal defendants. The State imprisons many political prisoners and executes some.

There is a reason people get on anything that will float and risk shark infested waters to float to Florida. Can you guess what reason that is?

so, no new cars then?

No. Read what I wrote about cars. "Most Cubans can't afford a car. Most Americans can. Half of all cars in Cuba are Cold War Russian cars." How the hell do you jump from that to "so, no new cars then?"

OK all you're "freedom" this and that is baloney.

To you, maybe. To the political prisoners locked up in Castro's jails, and those that were executed over the last 50 years, it means a lot. To the people who jump on rafts to float to Florida, it means a lot. To those who know they aren't permitted to voice opposition to "The Revolution," it means quite a bit to.

Of course, like I said, the US is a better situation for some Cubans (or so they believe), but it has more to do with historical circumstances than capitalism/socialism.

Part of the "historical circumstances" is "capitalism/socialism"/communism.

Are you even taking the position that the Cuban system is better than the American? Or, the Canadian?