Holy Crap!
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Gawdzilla Sama
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by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:26 pm
Deersbee wrote:Propaganda by whom?!
May be you mean by missionizing evangelists, yes, this is absolutely deplorable. They chat people in the street up, sometimes singing rocky-poppy songs, people see an opportunity to practise their English, then people are asked "do you belive in God", people say "to be honest no", then evangelists say "but do you know that God is love", people say "now, this is interesting"...
Somebody had to talk them in to the fear needed to seek baptism. Pure manipulation and intimidation. Going to Heaven? That's cool. Going to HELL? That's SCARY!!!!!!! They fuck with people's minds. One of my cousins went to Vienna as a missionary.

Luckily her lazy bastard husband refused to get a job and they were kicked out of the country. Unfortunately, that meant they were back here. (She was stupid enough to ask me for money to support her missionary efforts.

)
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Gawdzilla Sama
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by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:27 pm
Trolldor wrote:What? No.
Missionaries tend to provide medicine, shelter, something.
Missionaries who bring nothing get spurned.
The missionaries mission is not to build up the local community, they just use that tactic to weasel into the society. Doctors Without Borders does it right.
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Trolldor
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by Trolldor » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:29 pm
It may not 'be their mission' but it's the only way the 'locals' will listen. Associating religion with 'food, shelter, medicine' is a necessity.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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Gawdzilla Sama
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by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:31 pm
Trolldor wrote:It may not 'be their mission' but it's the only way the 'locals' will listen. Associating religion with 'food, shelter, medicine' is a necessity.
Exactly, it's the bait that gets them in the door. Not motivated by altruism, but by the mission to get the missionary's ass into Heaven.
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DRSB
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by DRSB » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:34 pm
There certainly are many missionaries, mormons, evangelists and the like, fishing there, however, people go in masses to their local Orthodox churches (in Russia and Bulgaria) as well and have themselves baptized, just like that, without any scares, just for the sake of national identity.
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Trolldor
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by Trolldor » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:35 pm
Propaganda.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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Xamonas Chegwé
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by Xamonas Chegwé » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:36 pm
Deersbee wrote:How do you account for the fact that after 50 years of imposed atheism, people had themselves baptised the moment they deemed it safe? At age 30 and 40? Surely not because of the community, probably some sense of missing identiy, don't know, baffling however what a mass phenoomenon this is.
Are you talking about soviet Russia here? Most Russians deemed themselves christian and raised (indoctrinated) their children as christian
despite the official party line. There were secret churches right through the worst of the Stalinist era. They didn't convert. They simply came out of the shadows.
There is no better way to reinforce someone's belief system than by banning it.
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by Trolldor » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:38 pm
The thing about belief is that almost anything can be deemed to be 'reinforcing' someone's faith.
But prohibition never works.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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Gawdzilla Sama
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by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:38 pm
Deersbee wrote:There certainly are many missionaries, mormons, evangelists and the like, fishing there, however, people go in masses to their local Orthodox churches (in Russia and Bulgaria) as well and have themselves baptized, just like that, without any scares, just for the sake of national identity.
You don't think the priests in the established churches don't do the same thing?
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by DRSB » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:39 pm
Trolldor wrote:Propaganda.
Again, by whom? The Orthodox church never missionzed, they never reformed either, they've always been aside from RL, in their monasteries, missionizing is one thing they are not guilty of, that's why probably the US free churches are so succesfull in catching the bait, they go there and sing songs about love...
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Gawdzilla Sama
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by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:41 pm
Deersbee wrote:Trolldor wrote:Propaganda.
Again, by whom? The Orthodox church never missionzed, they never reformed either, they've always been aside from RL, in their monasteries, missionizing is one thing they are not guilty of, that's why probably the US free churches are so succesfull in catching the bait, they go there and sing songs about love...
The message is the same, go to Hell if you don't follow our orders.
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Xamonas Chegwé
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by Xamonas Chegwé » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:43 pm
Deersbee wrote:Trolldor wrote:Propaganda.
Again, by whom? The Orthodox church never missionzed, they never reformed either, they've always been aside from RL, in their monasteries, missionizing is one thing they are not guilty of, that's why probably the US free churches are so succesfull in catching the bait, they go there and sing songs about love...
When you have religion sewn up and 95%+ of the population attend your church every week, you don't need to advertise. All of the propaganda comes straight from the pulpit.
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing 
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
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by DRSB » Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:46 pm
Xamonas Chegwé wrote:Deersbee wrote:How do you account for the fact that after 50 years of imposed atheism, people had themselves baptised the moment they deemed it safe? At age 30 and 40? Surely not because of the community, probably some sense of missing identiy, don't know, baffling however what a mass phenoomenon this is.
Are you talking about soviet Russia here? Most Russians deemed themselves christian and raised (indoctrinated) their children as christian
despite the official party line. There were secret churches right through the worst of the Stalinist era. They didn't convert. They simply came out of the shadows.
There is no better way to reinforce someone's belief system than by banning it.
They deemed themselves Christian in as much as to differentiate themselves from Jews. However, what "secret churches" are you talking about? There certainly was no mass religious education or upbringing and people were not baptized and did not practice openly. They kept some knowledge of dates on the calendar but they are very supertitious as well and basically have a penchant for spirituality.
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by DRSB » Wed Dec 29, 2010 2:20 pm
Trolldor wrote:It may not 'be their mission' but it's the only way the 'locals' will listen. Associating religion with 'food, shelter, medicine' is a necessity.
The mission of the missionaries of the mormon-evangelist kind is to recruit new members that will start tithing as soon as they join in, in other words, to raise funds, not to donate some.
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by Bruce Burleson » Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:52 am
Kevin wrote:I'd like to know how you'd deal with the revelation that a major atheist icon was actually a convert to Christianity? Would you join the metaphoric lynch mob? or take the Bible from the shelf? or not give a damn?

Sometimes, people have personal experiences that create faith. It has nothing to do, necessarily, with dogma or tradition or fear or brainwashing. People have personal experiences that lead them to believe in certain things. I would want to hear from this person why she/he converted. I would be very interested in her/his explanation.
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