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sandinista
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by sandinista » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:44 pm
camoguard wrote:Lozzer wrote:It would seem that In Britain we have this renewed war-time spirit of elevating servicemen to the level of epic Greek protagonists, which isn't necessarily bad in itself, but it seems to be an indulgence where critique is simply not allowed. Individuals which happen to 'support our heroes' possess a moralist conceit as if their raging military advocacy actually has any bearing on the success of the Afghanistan/Iraq struggle.
SNIP
Rant over.
The military of your country represents you to some extent. Therefor, the metaphor is what happened to them would have happened to you except they were there. Sure, some of that is hype to keep people enlisted. But despite being a job, those people get shot at and they are expected to react sensibly and in many cases nonviolently while worrying about IEDs. That's a little heroic.
I'm biased because I was a hero once.

that metaphor is hilarious. Still not heroic in any sense, especially considering the countries being invaded are amongst the poorest on the planet. About as heroic as an adult kicking a child in the head for pushing another child..."hey I stepped in!! I'm a hero!!".
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.
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by Trolldor » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:58 pm
lolno.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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sandinista
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by sandinista » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:00 pm
The Mad Hatter wrote:lolno.
lolyes, great insight.

Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.
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by Trolldor » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:05 pm
There's no point in trying to grant you insight, you're as prepared for evidence as a UFOist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... per_capita
But hey, here's a list.
Just go through the last 100 and how many are being invaded.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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sandinista
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by sandinista » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:12 pm

yah, you're

I guess Afghanistan is a military equal to the US...or Vietnam, or Panama, or Iraq, or Grenada, or Nicaragua, or El Salvador, or Laos, or Cambodia.
take your tinfoil hat off long enough to think maybe...just a suggestion.
Afghanistan is fuckin, what 170 on you "list" WTF are you talking about...you make no sense at all. Trying to prove your point only to prove mine.

Last edited by
sandinista on Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by Trolldor » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:15 pm
*snore*
You're boring. Goodbye.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."
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sandinista
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by sandinista » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:16 pm
The Mad Hatter wrote:*snore*
You're boring. Goodbye.
good riddance, I may be boring, but you're wrong.
could I suggest maybe reading your links before posting them?

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camoguard
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by camoguard » Tue Jan 04, 2011 7:39 pm
sandinista wrote:camoguard wrote:Lozzer wrote:It would seem that In Britain we have this renewed war-time spirit of elevating servicemen to the level of epic Greek protagonists, which isn't necessarily bad in itself, but it seems to be an indulgence where critique is simply not allowed. Individuals which happen to 'support our heroes' possess a moralist conceit as if their raging military advocacy actually has any bearing on the success of the Afghanistan/Iraq struggle.
SNIP
Rant over.
The military of your country represents you to some extent. Therefor, the metaphor is what happened to them would have happened to you except they were there. Sure, some of that is hype to keep people enlisted. But despite being a job, those people get shot at and they are expected to react sensibly and in many cases nonviolently while worrying about IEDs. That's a little heroic.
I'm biased because I was a hero once.

that metaphor is hilarious. Still not heroic in any sense, especially considering the countries being invaded are amongst the poorest on the planet. About as heroic as an adult kicking a child in the head for pushing another child..."hey I stepped in!! I'm a hero!!".
I'm not suggesting that the military is entirely you. But our military certainly reflects on our citizens. Its behavior should generate a response in our citizens that manifests in our political appointees and that's only limited by the nature of the government in question. We have the ability by to express our distaste with how the military is being used which provides a level of consent for the military actions. And other countries' citizens, Afghanistanis for example, are making opinions of the U.S. in general based on the efforts of our soldiers. At least, that's what I'm thinking.
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sandinista
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by sandinista » Tue Jan 04, 2011 8:08 pm
I don't think the military represents a countries citizens at all. I guess what you are saying is that if the citizens don't approve of military action they can vote for a "party" that will stop the invasions. Problem with that is...all the "parties" (all 2 of them in most cases...lovely democracy

) are
for military actions. There is no choice. I see what you mean by other countries base their opinions on the invading countries visa vie the soldiers, which is why the US and now canaduh are pretty much despised world wide.
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by camoguard » Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:11 pm
I know it's a long shot but if we really wanted to reign in the military use in America and we had ten years of dedication to the cause, we could do it. The simple fact is the military continues its status quo because we are distracted by other things. I get the complexity of asking people to ignore other issues and focus on a small handful but until the citizens can unite over a small set of priorities, our government is going to continue to have all the rope they need to justify things which I would never have individually mandated (and which may be unpopular and senseless as seen countrywide).
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sandinista
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by sandinista » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:22 pm
camoguard wrote:I know it's a long shot but if we really wanted to reign in the military use in America and we had ten years of dedication to the cause, we could do it.
How so?
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by camoguard » Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:44 pm
You'd vote for single issue (or really small issue set) third party candidates enough to make the primary parties pay attention to the issues. In some places the independents would win, but really the "loser" major party just as the legislative Democrats at the moment would consider adopting the single issue item into their arsenal and those candidates would win primaries or else the major parties would continue to lose a percentage of votes to the third party. The longest possible odds would be that the independent candidates win enough elections that one of the "major" parties is properly displaced. That's how I think the average American citizen could act in order to influence government behavior.
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by sandinista » Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:59 pm
camoguard wrote:You'd vote for single issue (or really small issue set) third party candidates enough to make the primary parties pay attention to the issues. In some places the independents would win, but really the "loser" major party just as the legislative Democrats at the moment would consider adopting the single issue item into their arsenal and those candidates would win primaries or else the major parties would continue to lose a percentage of votes to the third party. The longest possible odds would be that the independent candidates win enough elections that one of the "major" parties is properly displaced. That's how I think the average American citizen could act in order to influence government behavior.
The main party, in the US, the republicrats, will never change policy based on anything like that. I like you optimism when it comes to party politics, but the system ("democracy") is set up to rule in favor of corporate elites, not individuals.
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by camoguard » Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:51 pm
Regardless, it's still a popularity contest and what is popular can be influenced.
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by sandinista » Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:18 pm
camoguard wrote:Regardless, it's still a popularity contest and what is popular can be influenced.
It's much more complex than that. What is "popular" is most often influenced by those with the power to influence, ie. multinationals/those with money.
Our struggle is not against actual corrupt individuals, but against those in power in general, against their authority, against the global order and the ideological mystification which sustains it.
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