Civilians are legitimate targets

[JOZeldenrust]

Sure, and all those Palestinian civilians are legitimate targets of Israeli oppression. They shouldn't expect to stand idly by while their fellow tribesmen bomb Israeli bars and busses.

Gawd, you're actively hurting the Palestinian people by alienating those who would be sympathetic towards them.

He never claimed he was smart.

I wouldn't claim either of you are as well.

By the same logic, the um.. 100 Isreali civilians killed by homemade rockets in the past um.. 7 years are legitimate targets just as much as the thousands of Palestinian civilians killed by GBUs dropped by ISF F-18s on them in um... 3 weeks.

Your sarcasm detector is malfunctioning.

The Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory, the economic blockade imposed on non-occupied Palestinian territory and the repeated use of military force by the Israeli's against Palestinian civilians isn't justfied at all. Even if the target is a legitimate target (like IMHO armed Hamas cells are), the ratio of colateral versus acquired targets is unacceptably high. I also think what Israel sees as targets is wrong. They're handling this as a military conflict, ignoring the underlying sociol and economic problems.

Likewise, Israeli civilians aren't legitimate targets, though I can see why Palestinian terrorists would regard them as such. Palestinians are the economic and logistic underdogs in this conflict, so they are less able to decide the terms on which the battle is fought. Still, civilians aren't personally responsible for the actions of their government. If anything, it's the other way around, though even that responsibility is severly limited.

[Gawd]

Sure, and all those Palestinian civilians are legitimate targets of Israeli oppression. They shouldn't expect to stand idly by while their fellow tribesmen bomb Israeli bars and busses.

Gawd, you're actively hurting the Palestinian people by alienating those who would be sympathetic towards them.

He never claimed he was smart.

I wouldn't claim either of you are as well.

By the same logic, the um.. 100 Isreali civilians killed by homemade rockets in the past um.. 7 years are legitimate targets just as much as the thousands of Palestinian civilians killed by GBUs dropped by ISF F-18s on them in um... 3 weeks.

Your sarcasm detector is malfunctioning.

The Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory, the economic blockade imposed on non-occupied Palestinian territory and the repeated use of military force by the Israeli's against Palestinian civilians isn't justfied at all. Even if the target is a legitimate target (like IMHO armed Hamas cells are), the ratio of colateral versus acquired targets is unacceptably high. I also think what Israel sees as targets is wrong. They're handling this as a military conflict, ignoring the underlying sociol and economic problems.

Likewise, Israeli civilians aren't legitimate targets, though I can see why Palestinian terrorists would regard them as such. Palestinians are the economic and logistic underdogs in this conflict, so they are less able to decide the terms on which the battle is fought. Still, civilians aren't personally responsible for the actions of their government. If anything, it's the other way around, though even that responsibility is severly limited.

You cannot separate the personal responsibility of a citizen to that of the government. That is illogical to do since a citizen forms part of the state and has a stake as well as liability. You cannot take all the gravy while refusing any broccoli.

And as for Israel, why don't you head on over to the I hate Israel subforum and read some of the threads that show that it is both the government and the citizens in Israel that are racist and intentionally steal from non-Jews? Oh, and Human Rights Watch just released a new report today slamming the racism the Israelis show to non-Jews.

P.S. I'll give you credit for admitting that Israel is in the wrong.

[sandinista]

Luckily, when Nagoya was socked in, the crew of Bock's Car did, indeed, remember Nagasaki.

Wasn't it Kokura? Or is that in or part of Nagoya? My Japanese geography is a little off.

Meh, one town full of slitty-eyed yellow bastards looks pretty much like another from 30,000 feet. It's easier just to pickle that puppy off and yell "Miller Time!" than to do that tedious geography shit.

typical.

[eXcommunicate]

Sure, and all those Palestinian civilians are legitimate targets of Israeli oppression. They shouldn't expect to stand idly by while their fellow tribesmen bomb Israeli bars and busses.

Gawd, you're actively hurting the Palestinian people by alienating those who would be sympathetic towards them.

He never claimed he was smart.

I wouldn't claim either of you are as well.

By the same logic, the um.. 100 Isreali civilians killed by homemade rockets in the past um.. 7 years are legitimate targets just as much as the thousands of Palestinian civilians killed by GBUs dropped by ISF F-18s on them in um... 3 weeks.

Your sarcasm detector is malfunctioning.

The Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory, the economic blockade imposed on non-occupied Palestinian territory and the repeated use of military force by the Israeli's against Palestinian civilians isn't justfied at all. Even if the target is a legitimate target (like IMHO armed Hamas cells are), the ratio of colateral versus acquired targets is unacceptably high. I also think what Israel sees as targets is wrong. They're handling this as a military conflict, ignoring the underlying sociol and economic problems.

Likewise, Israeli civilians aren't legitimate targets, though I can see why Palestinian terrorists would regard them as such. Palestinians are the economic and logistic underdogs in this conflict, so they are less able to decide the terms on which the battle is fought. Still, civilians aren't personally responsible for the actions of their government. If anything, it's the other way around, though even that responsibility is severly limited.

You cannot separate the personal responsibility of a citizen to that of the government. That is illogical to do since a citizen forms part of the state and has a stake as well as liability. You cannot take all the gravy while refusing any broccoli.

Unfortunately I'm forced to agree. This is especially true for so-called "democracies." The more democratic the state, the more your proposition is true. Not so true, IMHO, in tyrannical situation where the civilians have no say in the gov't.

[sandinista]

why unfortunate?