Iceland bans all strip clubs. All of them.

[Coito ergo sum]

What about the charity strip clubs for the poor?

A new charity: Nudes for the Needy! I mean - why should the poor not have lap dances, and why should the rich get a disproportionate share of the blowjobs in the VIP rooms? LOL

Here here!

Strippers don't do nearly enough pro bono work.

We should set up a program where strippers are like "court appointed." If you can't afford a stripper, one will be appointed for you, and they would submit their time to the state for reimbursement.

[Sælir]

Since this began with Iceland I would like to say that I wouldn´t mind banning them if it would have been put up to a vote. That is what we are hoping to do with our rewritten constitution, making the public take a bigger part in things like this and voting for controversial matters.
If the majority of the public wants this then that is fine but I really don´t think a few people in our government that don´t like strip clubs can just decide that this is something we don´t want in this country.

Although... don´t know how many people would actually show up to vote on the matter of strip clubs

[Coito ergo sum]

Since this began with Iceland I would like to say that I wouldn´t mind banning them if it would have been put up to a vote. That is what we are hoping to do with our rewritten constitution, making the public take a bigger part in things like this and voting for controversial matters.
If the majority of the public wants this then that is fine but I really don´t think a few people in our government that don´t like strip clubs can just decide that this is something we don´t want in this country.

Although... don´t know how many people would actually show up to vote on the matter of strip clubs

I would that that all you'd need is for the strippers to all register to volunteer as poll workers during the election. I'm sure voter turnout among the "pro" camp would skyrocket. I'm sure they'd be really great at workin' the polls.....

[Sælir]

Since this began with Iceland I would like to say that I wouldn´t mind banning them if it would have been put up to a vote. That is what we are hoping to do with our rewritten constitution, making the public take a bigger part in things like this and voting for controversial matters.
If the majority of the public wants this then that is fine but I really don´t think a few people in our government that don´t like strip clubs can just decide that this is something we don´t want in this country.

Although... don´t know how many people would actually show up to vote on the matter of strip clubs

I would that that all you'd need is for the strippers to all register to volunteer as poll workers during the election. I'm sure voter turnout among the "pro" camp would skyrocket. I'm sure they'd be really great at workin' the polls.....

[Tero]

What will they do with the homeless strippers?

[Sælir]

What will they do with the homeless strippers?

They become prostitutes

[Ian]

What about the charity strip clubs for the poor?

A new charity: Nudes for the Needy! I mean - why should the poor not have lap dances, and why should the rich get a disproportionate share of the blowjobs in the VIP rooms? LOL

Here here!

Strippers don't do nearly enough pro bono work.

We should set up a program where strippers are like "court appointed." If you can't afford a stripper, one will be appointed for you, and they would submit their time to the state for reimbursement.

A most worthy government spending program.

[mistermack]

Nothing private about a strip club? Who owns them? The government? We have public strip clubs?????? Who new! I wonder if they needs-base the lap dances at the state-run boob-stores....

You sure can vote for whatever you like to vote for, but but that doesn't mean you're not imposing your morals on others when objecting to whether a grown person dances and removes her clothes in a private bar full of adults.

Yes - many things are voted on because people find them morally distasteful -- like, locking women up in jail cells for getting money in exchange for doing what they'd be otherwise free to do for nothing. But, it's still moralizing. Puts you in, well ....company.

Coito, I can't believe I have to explain the meaning of ordinary English words to you, but it seems I must. You are confusing the words "public" and "private" with the expressions "publicly owned" and "privately owned".
Public, when applied to a place, is somewhere that the public have access to.
And private is the opposite of that.
Hence your "private bar" is a public place.
And yes I'm moralizing about what I would like my country to be like. But it could only become law if it had enough support in Parliament, so I would hardly be imposing just my own morals on others.
Morals are imposed by law in most countries. What age of consent would you vote for? If you are against morals being imposed on others, you must be in favour of no age of consent limit.

[Coito ergo sum]

Nothing private about a strip club? Who owns them? The government? We have public strip clubs?????? Who new! I wonder if they needs-base the lap dances at the state-run boob-stores....

You sure can vote for whatever you like to vote for, but but that doesn't mean you're not imposing your morals on others when objecting to whether a grown person dances and removes her clothes in a private bar full of adults.

Yes - many things are voted on because people find them morally distasteful -- like, locking women up in jail cells for getting money in exchange for doing what they'd be otherwise free to do for nothing. But, it's still moralizing. Puts you in, well ....company.

Coito, I can't believe I have to explain the meaning of ordinary English words to you, but it seems I must. You are confusing the words "public" and "private" with the expressions "publicly owned" and "privately owned".
Public, when applied to a place, is somewhere that the public have access to.
And private is the opposite of that.
Hence your "private bar" is a public place.
And yes I'm moralizing about what I would like my country to be like. But it could only become law if it had enough support in Parliament, so I would hardly be imposing just my own morals on others.
Morals are imposed by law in most countries. What age of consent would you vote for? If you are against morals being imposed on others, you must be in favour of no age of consent limit.

If you'll recall - I referred to a strip club as a "private establishment." It is just that - "a private establishment."

What you're referring to is a "place of public accommodation." But, I get your intended meaning now - so we need not argue about definitions anymore. Fair enough.

As for ages of consent - in my view, they should not be based on "morals." They should be based on an rational assessment of the nature of human biological and emotional development, such that a "statutory rape" age is set at an appropriate level where it can be fairly said that most of the people being protected by the law aren't emotionally or physically mature enough to make a reasoned decision about whether to have sex with an older person. I don't care whether it's good or bad for a 13 year old to have sex - I care whether 13 year olds are generally mature enough to make responsible decisions and not get taken advantage of by much older people. If two 13 year olds want to bang away like wild monkeys in the forest, then that's between those kids, and their respective parents.

It's not rape for a 13 year old to have consensual sex with a 12 year old or 14 year old, or even 15, 16 or 17 year old in most places (depends on the jurisdiction). It's rape for an 21year old to have sex with a 13 year old, though, in most places, because of the, statistically speaking, power disparity, maturity disparity, and relative weakness of the 13 year old vis-a-vis an adult.

It's also based on realities associated with law enforcement. Rape and sex are both things that very often occur in private between two people who will later hold diametrically opposite versions of what really happened. The 13 year old would claim later that she didn't want to do it, and the 21 year old might claim that she seemed to be plenty willing. It's a difficult area of proof, and when witnesses are children there are inherent practical problems faced by prosecutors, including making victims relive the crimes committed against them (in the cases where it really was nonconsensual), and the problem of young witnesses whose stories are more easily malleable than adults, or who may be easily intimidated or scared into testifying one way or another. A policy decision is made to simply draw a line stating that we don't care about whether she consented or not - we place the burden on the adult to keep the pants on, and refrain from sex EVEN IF the 13 year old wants it, simply because of the heightened risks to young kids and the practical problems associated with prosecution.

Morality need not enter into it.

[mistermack]

Morality need not enter into it.

I'm sure you mean that, but to me, what you said sounds awfully close to morality.
Morality often grows out of such practical issues.
If there is no doubt whatsoever about consent, why is it wrong for a thirty year old to have sex with a fourteen year old? Should it be illegal, even if the younger partner insists there was no persuasion or coercion?
There's no black and white in most cases, but if you say it's wrong, that's morality.
I have no problem with a bit of morality being included in the law. Quite often it's intertwined with practicalities. So long as it has the consent of the people, it's perfectly legititmate in my book.
With strip clubs, you can make an argument without morals. They nearly always end up being used as a way in to more organised sex for sale, with all the exploitation that that involves.
I personally would say it's a combination of morals and practicality, and the end result of banning them is a slightly better world to live in.

There are loads of examples of morals coming into the law. It's illegal to fuck a sheep, but not illegal to kill and eat it. It's nothing to do with animal rights, we just think it's wrong to fuck a sheep.
You get arrested for swearing, in England if you are in the street.
A policeman would maybe warn you once or twice, then arrest you for a breach of the peace.
If you urinate in the gutter in the pouring rain, in the street, you are breaking the law.
It just the law enforcing the morals of the majority.
.

[Robert_S]

"Morality" might not be the right word here.

What I think might be closer to Coito's meaning could be "intrusive morality". That is: interfering with what consenting adults do because non-involved people disapprove of it. If I had my way, Jerry Springer, Maury Pauvich and their ilk would not be allowed on television because I believe they lower the expectations for civility, rationality and dignity. But since somebody else could very easily use that same standard of censorship to limit my freedom to look at nude pics, atheist websites and so on, I am content to not have my way.

[mistermack]

"Morality" might not be the right word here.

What I think might be closer to Coito's meaning could be "intrusive morality". That is: interfering with what consenting adults do because non-involved people disapprove of it. If I had my way, Jerry Springer, Maury Pauvich and their ilk would not be allowed on television because I believe they lower the expectations for civility, rationality and dignity. But since somebody else could very easily use that same standard of censorship to limit my freedom to look at nude pics, atheist websites and so on, I am content to not have my way.

I accept that it's morality in my case. I don't object to women stripping for men. Not as consenting adults. I object to it being an industry, with people being exploited by third parties. If it was just girls getting money directly from the men, I would object less.
And the same applies to prostitution.

[Robert_S]

"Morality" might not be the right word here.

What I think might be closer to Coito's meaning could be "intrusive morality". That is: interfering with what consenting adults do because non-involved people disapprove of it. If I had my way, Jerry Springer, Maury Pauvich and their ilk would not be allowed on television because I believe they lower the expectations for civility, rationality and dignity. But since somebody else could very easily use that same standard of censorship to limit my freedom to look at nude pics, atheist websites and so on, I am content to not have my way.

I accept that it's morality in my case. I don't object to women stripping for men. Not as consenting adults. I object to it being an industry, with people being exploited by third parties. If it was just girls getting money directly from the men, I would object less.
And the same applies to prostitution.

OK, so who's going to provide security, music, serve refreshments, provide a roof, pay the power bills, sweep the floors... At the local club here, the gorls pay out $40.00 for the night and keep whatever's left over. Usually that amounts to a three or four hundred dollars on a good night and as low as sixty on a slow one. Not bad for someone working 8:00 PM to 1:00 AM.

Whatever exploitation there is is not inherent to the activity, but has arisen due to the circumstances in the different clubs.

[mistermack]

I didn't say it was practical. Just that if it was, I wouldn't have the same objections.
What if someone organised fucking clubs, instead of strip clubs. All the liberty arguments would apply just the same. Consenting adults, private clubs, good money being earned. It all applies just the same. If you ban fucking clubs, you are imposing your own morality on consenting adults, just like banning strip clubs.
.

[Robert_S]

I didn't say it was practical. Just that if it was, I wouldn't have the same objections.
What if someone organised fucking clubs, instead of strip clubs. All the liberty arguments would apply just the same. Consenting adults, private clubs, good money being earned. It all applies just the same. If you ban fucking clubs, you are imposing your own morality on consenting adults, just like banning strip clubs.
.

I wouldn't vote to ban fucking clubs either. They would probably be safer than the options currently available.