American Drone Attack in Pakistan Kills German

[Coito ergo sum]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 84,00.html

A US drone attack in Pakistan in October is thought to have killed a German citizen. The government of Chancellor Angela Merkel would prefer the case to simply go away, but one parliamentarian is refusing to let it be forgotten.

When a German citizen is killed in a foreign country under mysterious circumstances, one might expect an outcry from politicians and the media. But the case of Bünyamin E., a German of Turkish descent who is believed to have died in Pakistan on Oct. 4, has caused remarkably little fuss in Germany -- partly because the 20-year-old was a suspected terrorist, but also because he was apparently killed by an American drone.

The case is awkward for the German government, as it involves the country's most powerful ally and also raises uncomfortable questions about whether Germany provided support for the targeted killing.
But one opposition politician in particular is determined not to let the government off the hook. Wolfgang Neskovic, a member of parliament for the far-left Left Party, has been pursuing the case and demanding answers from Chancellor Angela Merkel's administration.

What's the legal basis for these drone attacks, anyway? Is it illegal?

[Feck]

It must be illegal ,but there again I'm sure Pakistan is breaking a few laws by allowing terrorist training camps .

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I think he family owes us a drone.

[Mahou]

Well that sucks. Unless the guy was a terrorist. In which case, whatever.

I'm not overly concerned about attacks on the terrorist camps in Pakistan, since Pakistan seems to be doing astonishingly little about the problem they have there. I do wish the US military showed any concern about collateral damage though. Our leaders are dicks.

[Warren Dew]

Well that sucks. Unless the guy was a terrorist. In which case, whatever.

I'm not overly concerned about attacks on the terrorist camps in Pakistan, since Pakistan seems to be doing astonishingly little about the problem they have there. I do wish the US military showed any concern about collateral damage though. Our leaders are dicks.

If the guy was at a terrorist camp, he probably wasn't an innocent "collateral damage" bystander. Irrespective of our leadership, drones don't do a lot of collateral damage - their warheads aren't that big.

[Santa_Claus]

Bomb under or inside car = Terrorist
Bomb on top of car = spreading peace & democracy.

Besides, sounds like he was the dusky end of German..............

[Feck]

It does seem unlikely that an German Turk (falsely suspected by those nasty Germans of course) was visiting the tourist hot -spots of Pakistan when the big bad Merkins randomly murdered him .

[Mahou]

Wasn't there that big bust where we uncovered a major terrorist plot in Germany a while back?

[Gawd]

Wasn't there that big bust where we uncovered a major terrorist plot in Germany a while back?

Yeah, the Nazis.

[Coito ergo sum]

It does seem unlikely that an German Turk (falsely suspected by those nasty Germans of course) was visiting the tourist hot -spots of Pakistan when the big bad Merkins randomly murdered him .

Yep, like the terrorists in Afghanistan.

[Feck]

It does seem unlikely that an German Turk (falsely suspected by those nasty Germans of course) was visiting the tourist hot -spots of Pakistan when the big bad Merkins randomly murdered him .

Yep, like the terrorists in Afghanistan.

There is some difference between taking out known Terrorists and invading a country .But I'm still not sure about Afghanistan ,A I don't know if it should have been invaded B, If it has made anyone in the west safer ,C if it will make life better in the long term for the people of Afghanistan .

[Trolldor]

Well, Feck, I'm not sure life can get worse than rule under Fundamentalist Islam.

[Coito ergo sum]

It does seem unlikely that an German Turk (falsely suspected by those nasty Germans of course) was visiting the tourist hot -spots of Pakistan when the big bad Merkins randomly murdered him .

Yep, like the terrorists in Afghanistan.

There is some difference between taking out known Terrorists and invading a country .But I'm still not sure about Afghanistan ,A I don't know if it should have been invaded B, If it has made anyone in the west safer ,C if it will make life better in the long term for the people of Afghanistan .

Is part of the difference that you see an examination of who the President was?

You're sure about Pakistan, but not sure about Afghanistan? We knew Al Qaeta's base was there, and that they were dug in to the point that sending missiles over wouldn't have done the job.

Frankly, anyone who has made the argument that Afghanistan was an illegal war, in my view, can't rationally conclude that the drone attacks in Pakistan are legal. Pakistan officially protests them, and Pakistan is a sovereign nation, we have no declaration of war and no specific authorization for war in Pakistan (other than the same authorization that the previous administration used to go to war in Afghanistan).

I recall hearing the argument many times that the US isn't justified in just unilaterally declaring who it considers to be a terrorist and blowing them up. How is that different with the Pakistan incursions?

[sandinista]

It must be illegal ,but there again I'm sure Pakistan is breaking a few laws by allowing terrorist training camps .

The US has has/runs terrorist training camps all over the planet.

[Feck]

Well, Feck, I'm not sure life can get worse than rule under Fundamentalist Islam.

Yep that's why I said I'm not sure rather than cursing about Merkin imperialism .

CES If I say I'm not sure it's because I'm not sure OK ! I made no argument in that post about an illegal war ,If you read my post earlier in the thread I did say that the US actions in Pakistan are probably illegal but implied that they are justifiable in fact it was the second post in this thread .

also you may think everybody thinks about nothing else than democrat Vs republican (god knows you post enough on the subject) but it wasn't in my mind when I said there was 'some difference' . And to be fucking honest when I make a post full of 'I'm not sure ' 'I don't know if ' and You reply with not only an attack on things I did not say but assume a position and motive for me that suits your Hostility ,then I can't be bothered . In general when someone argues badly ignores what I actually say and gets angry I tend to find my opinions drifting further from theirs .