Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - again!

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Ronja
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Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - again!

Post by Ronja » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:23 am

Today I am ashamed to be a Finn - the main redeeming feature of my position is that I am *not* a member of the Evangelic Lutheran Church of Finland (ELCoF).

On 22nd October 2010, our Supreme Court gave this verdict:
The Finnish Suspreme [sic!] Court found on Friday that a conservative clergyman of the Lutheran Evangelical Association of Finland, who was a guest pastor at a Sunday service of the Hyvinkää congregation of the Finnish Evangelical Lutheran Church, had been guilty of gender discrimination when he refused to work alongside a woman pastor, Petra Pohjanraitio, in 2007.

Pohjanraitio had been scheduled to serve at the altar, handing out communion. However, before the service, she was told by the visiting pastor that his apostolic beliefs prevented him from working with a woman pastor at the altar.

The Supreme Court did not accept the religious freedom argument, saying that the visiting pastor’s belief did not excuse the violation of human rights, such as gender discrimination.

Full article here: http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Woman+ ... 5261096454

Today, 12th November 2010 (three weeks after the above described Supreme Court decision), the General Synod of ELCoF makes this decision:
A meeting of the General Synod of Finland's Evangelical Lutheran Church voted Friday to permit pastors to offer prayers on behalf of same-sex couples. The vote was postponed by a day because of extended debate on the issue.

The annual meeting of representatives of Finland's dominant church approved a committee proposal that allows pastors to pray on behalf of same-sex couples, but not offer a blessing as is done in traditional weddings. The prayers will not be classed as a formal church service. This means that pastors will not be required to offer prayers for same-sex couples.
Full article here: http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2010/11/ ... 34228.html


The audacious, willful stupidity of this - it hurts. :banghead:
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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by Thinking Aloud » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:07 pm

At least the consolation is that the prayers and blessings won't work whether offered or not. :ddpan:

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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by stripes4 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:09 pm

Oh good grief. Don't get me started. :nono:
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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:23 pm

stripes4 wrote:Oh good grief. Don't get me started. :nono:
Here? :funny:
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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by charlou » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:25 pm

It's all bollocks ... I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks their relationship/union needs 'prayers' or 'blessings', ie religious approval. :|~
no fences

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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by stripes4 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:27 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
stripes4 wrote:Oh good grief. Don't get me started. :nono:
Here? :funny:
I don't see that there's anything wrong with being 'prolific'. Wasn't it you that urged me not to be an uninvolved, non posting member when I joined?? Maybe it was Dawkdor... :biggrin:
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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:28 pm

stripes4 wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
stripes4 wrote:Oh good grief. Don't get me started. :nono:
Here? :funny:
I don't see that there's anything wrong with being 'prolific'. Wasn't it you that urged me not to be an uninvolved, non posting member when I joined?? Maybe it was Dawkdor... :biggrin:
Just because I'm a slow poster doesn't mean you have to be one. :whisper:
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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by stripes4 » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:32 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
stripes4 wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
stripes4 wrote:Oh good grief. Don't get me started. :nono:
Here? :funny:
I don't see that there's anything wrong with being 'prolific'. Wasn't it you that urged me not to be an uninvolved, non posting member when I joined?? Maybe it was Dawkdor... :biggrin:
Just because I'm a slow poster doesn't mean you have to be one. :whisper:
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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by charlou » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:34 pm

Come on guys .. the pub's over there ... :nono:
no fences

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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by Ronja » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:46 pm

Charlou wrote:It's all bollocks ... I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks their relationship/union needs 'prayers' or 'blessings', ie religious approval. :|~
I would agree with you a lot more, if this blasted organization was a "regular" religion, and not the (vastly) bigger of our two state churches. The government collects the membership taxes for the ELCoF, and official representatives of the church are *invited* to various parliamentary working groups and committees to give opinions about this, that and the other (new laws etc). It looks like the ELCoF wants to have all these privileges, yet they are choosing not to make their employees follow the law of the land.

Separation of church and state NOW, says I! :irate:
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by Ronja » Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:59 pm

Thinking Aloud wrote:At least the consolation is that the prayers and blessings won't work whether offered or not. :ddpan:
Some consolation... :ddpan: says it all.
"The internet is made of people. People matter. This includes you. Stop trying to sell everything about yourself to everyone. Don’t just hammer away and repeat and talk at people—talk TO people. It’s organic. Make stuff for the internet that matters to you, even if it seems stupid. Do it because it’s good and feels important. Put up more cat pictures. Make more songs. Show your doodles. Give things away and take things that are free." - Maureen J

"...anyone who says it’s “just the Internet” can :pawiz: . And then when they come back, they can :pawiz: again." - Tigger

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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:42 pm

Ronja wrote:
Charlou wrote:It's all bollocks ... I have no sympathy for anyone who thinks their relationship/union needs 'prayers' or 'blessings', ie religious approval. :|~
I would agree with you a lot more, if this blasted organization was a "regular" religion, and not the (vastly) bigger of our two state churches. The government collects the membership taxes for the ELCoF, and official representatives of the church are *invited* to various parliamentary working groups and committees to give opinions about this, that and the other (new laws etc). It looks like the ELCoF wants to have all these privileges, yet they are choosing not to make their employees follow the law of the land.

Separation of church and state NOW, says I! :irate:
Well, that is the key.

It's fine with me if a church doesn't want to marry gays - to each his own. Gays can go get married in a church that does gay weddings. HOWEVER, it should not be some sort of State sanctioned discrimination. The State should be neutral.

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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by Xamonas Chegwé » Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:52 pm

Frankly, I would be proud to belong to any group that a church was constitutionally unable to 'bless'. It's all bollocks anyway - let them play their game of 'pretend it actually matters'. With any luck it will drive same-sex couples and female priests away from the church and possibly from religion altogether - which can only be a good thing.

Remember, the more repressive and trapped in the past that the church appears, the easier it is for people to realise that the past is where it belongs.
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Re: Rant: State church explicitly allows discrimination - ag

Post by Feck » Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:26 pm

Would that be the ELC fuck ofF ?
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