The "Sanity" Rally. Is Jon Stewart naive?

[Coito ergo sum]

I like how you use the 2009 stimulus bill as evidence that gov't stimulus doesn't work, when a clear majority of economists said it wasn't big enough.

Well - it didn't work. And that "clear majority" of economists is just a talking point from those who advocate more government spending. There hasn't been a study done to show what the "clear majority" of economists are and which "economists" qualify as sufficiently noteworthy or accomplished to be worth considering. Moreover, the "economists" that Obama cited when he was pushing for the stimulus bill in 2009 were the ones he relied upon to make the claim that unemployment would not go up over 8%. They were off by 25% on that one.

We can only go by past history. Government spending was more than doubled in the 30s and keyed specifically to infuse capital into the economy and put people to work. After 10 years, the unemployment rate was still 20%.

[Robert_S]

Back on topic... There is vitriol on the left and the right, but the Tea Party just leaves itself so wide open to parody that you have to expect that they'll take a great deal more of it than anyone on the left.

[Trolldor]

The vitriol from the left comes mostly from angry youngsters. The vitriol from the right comes from 'established' figures and mass movements.
At least insofar as I have been exposed to it.

[Warren Dew]

I hear very often about how the government spending in the 30s pulled us out of the depression - yet, the collapse occurred in 1929 and in 1939 unemployment was 20%. World War 2 pulled us out of the depression, because 2 million men went overseas for 5 years, and the military industrial complex increased demand for industrial goods. The men came back from the war and there were more industries and manufacturing plants than private industry knew what to do with, and they converted much of them over to civilian manufacturing plants and the US took the lead in airplane manufacture, automobile manufacture, home appliances, electronics and every other industry in the world -- NOT because of any "american exceptionalism" but because of the circumstances at the time and that the US had the means and the opportunity to do it.

Most people are always willing to ignore facts that don't fit their theories.

We CAN'T remain a leader in the world merely as an information and service nation.

I don't see why not.

For millenia - from the agricultural revolution all the way up to the 19th century - most of the western economy was agriculture. It employed 90% of the population and made up 90% of economic output. Then came the industrial revolution, which greatly reduced the labor required to grow crops, to the point where everyone could have as much to eat as they wanted on a minority of the labor pool. It was only then that, even in the U.S., labor employed in manufacturing overtook that in agriculture.

Over the last few decades, due to automation, the labor needed for manufacturing has been reduced to the point where it doesn't take that many people to produce enough manufactured goods for everyone. Like it or not, information and services are going to be absorbing a large and growing proportion of the labor pool for the foreseeable future.

To me, it seems like it behooves us to lead in information and services, just as it was good to lead in manufacturing a century ago. While I'm still happy the U.S. is a major exporter of aircraft, just as it's still a major exporter of food, manufacturing is a shrinking proportion of the economy, and I don't think we should focus on it too much.

[maiforpeace]

Well, you were there. I can only go by the images I've seen. Many of the images were "tendentious" and insulting. But, I certainly will believe you when you say you experienced nonpartisan good fun. I'm glad it was a good time!

I don't like those mock-socialism signs, like the one above. I mean "trick or treaters are socialists?" That's like saying it's socialist to give Christmas presents, and very similar to the jokes that get emailed around endlessly proving that socialism is good because we have fire departments and public libraries. Trick or treating, libraries, fire departments, etc., are not socialism - they're gift-giving and government services. Socialism doesn't mean "free" or "government services." It means state control of the means of production and common ownership of property.

You don't see any ironic humor in those signs, just insults? They are meant to be humorous...unlike the Teabaggers that actually believe the stuff they put on their signs is the god's truth.

I see a huge difference between being ironic, mocking, and humorous versus actually threatening to exercise my 2nd amendment rights, bringing a gun to a rally, and calling Obama a Nazi...among other things you would find at a Tea Party protest, or on a Tea Party sign. Contrast Tea Party signs with the signs from this rally. Just the intelligence alone (in correct spelling and grammar) shines like a beacon. You don't see a difference? Say what you like, but the crazed, seriousness and anger that characterize most Tea Party protests and their signs is just scary, not to mention embarrassing when they misspell everything.

Jon Stewart's message was a simple and direct one - we need to LIGHTEN UP.

People take themselves way too seriously...on both sides, left, and right. Just on this forum alone we have a living example. Some people here can get pretty nasty, mean, and hurl ad homs at each other just over political disagreements... There are times we could use a mini rally to restore sanity on some of our political threads here. Bring on the music! The movie and musical stars! Have a good time, share community with people who share the same vision for rational, reasonable discourse, between each other, and in the media. What's wrong with that?

The Rally to Restore sanity benefitted Ian, his wife and the quarter million people who were at the mall on Saturday, not to mention the millions of people like me who were watching it on TV. Not only that, there were sister rallies, across the US and all over the world. A statement and a message that people the world around related to. That seems like it was a good purpose, and was served well.

Otherwise, for those who choose to just criticize it, why do you even care?

[Warren Dew]

Seems to me there's plenty of humor in these Tea Party signs:



That was the first picture that came up in a Google image search for "tea party movement", by the way.

I suspect the misspellings and lack of humor in Tea Party signs are more a function of the press' prejudice against the movement and selection of signs to try to make them to look stupid than anything about the movement itself.

[sandinista]

Well, you were there. I can only go by the images I've seen. Many of the images were "tendentious" and insulting. But, I certainly will believe you when you say you experienced nonpartisan good fun. I'm glad it was a good time!

I don't like those mock-socialism signs, like the one above. I mean "trick or treaters are socialists?" That's like saying it's socialist to give Christmas presents, and very similar to the jokes that get emailed around endlessly proving that socialism is good because we have fire departments and public libraries. Trick or treating, libraries, fire departments, etc., are not socialism - they're gift-giving and government services. Socialism doesn't mean "free" or "government services." It means state control of the means of production and common ownership of property.

You don't see any ironic humor in those signs, just insults? They are meant to be humorous...unlike the Teabaggers that actually believe the stuff they put on their signs is the god's truth.

I see a huge difference between being ironic, mocking, and humorous versus actually threatening to exercise my 2nd amendment rights, bringing a gun to a rally, and calling Obama a Nazi...among other things you would find at a Tea Party protest, or on a Tea Party sign. Contrast Tea Party signs with the signs from this rally. Just the intelligence alone (in correct spelling and grammar) shines like a beacon. You don't see a difference? Say what you like, but the crazed, seriousness and anger that characterize most Tea Party protests and their signs is just scary, not to mention embarrassing when they misspell everything.

Jon Stewart's message was a simple and direct one - we need to LIGHTEN UP.

People take themselves way too seriously...on both sides, left, and right. Just on this forum alone we have a living example. Some people here can get pretty nasty, mean, and hurl ad homs at each other just over political disagreements... There are times we could use a mini rally to restore sanity on some of our political threads here. Bring on the music! The movie and musical stars! Have a good time, share community with people who share the same vision for rational, reasonable discourse, between each other, and in the media. What's wrong with that?

The Rally to Restore sanity benefitted Ian, his wife and the quarter million people who were at the mall on Saturday, not to mention the millions of people like me who were watching it on TV. Not only that, there were sister rallies, across the US and all over the world. A statement and a message that people the world around related to. That seems like it was a good purpose, and was served well.

Otherwise, for those who choose to just criticize it, why do you even care?

I care because Stewart is perpetuating the myth of neo-liberalism not being an ideology. He billed his rally as being "for people who are politically dissatisfied but who are not ideological". (Democracy Now, November 1, 2010). It annoys me to no end people who claim to not be ideological. Of course he has an ideology, as do all the other people at the rally. Stewart also grouped together "Marxists actively subverting our constitution, racists and homophobes". Welcome to the Jon Stewart Tea Party. In his long interview last week of President Obama on his TV show, Stewart did not mention any of America's wars. That would have been impolite and divisive; maybe even not nice. Just my opinion, if you're wondering why people even care.

[Warren Dew]

That was the first picture that came up in a Google image search for "tea party movement", by the way.

And just in case you wonder why I put "movement" in there, here's the first hit for a search on "tea party":



Also somewhat humorous, in an incredibly cute way.

[maiforpeace]

I care because Stewart is perpetuating the myth of neo-liberalism not being an ideology. He billed his rally as being "for people who are politically dissatisfied but who are not ideological". (Democracy Now, November 1, 2010). It annoys me to no end people who claim to not be ideological. Of course he has an ideology, as do all the other people at the rally. Stewart also grouped together "Marxists actively subverting our constitution, racists and homophobes". Welcome to the Jon Stewart Tea Party. In his long interview last week of President Obama on his TV show, Stewart did not mention any of America's wars. That would have been impolite and divisive; maybe even not nice. Just my opinion, if you're wondering why people even care.

So the entire rally was just an excuse for some evil minded comedian to push his ideology?

For you, Sandinista...

[Trolldor]

Who were the old school liberals? When did 'neo-liebralism' start?

[sandinista]

I care because Stewart is perpetuating the myth of neo-liberalism not being an ideology. He billed his rally as being "for people who are politically dissatisfied but who are not ideological". (Democracy Now, November 1, 2010). It annoys me to no end people who claim to not be ideological. Of course he has an ideology, as do all the other people at the rally. Stewart also grouped together "Marxists actively subverting our constitution, racists and homophobes". Welcome to the Jon Stewart Tea Party. In his long interview last week of President Obama on his TV show, Stewart did not mention any of America's wars. That would have been impolite and divisive; maybe even not nice. Just my opinion, if you're wondering why people even care.

So the entire rally was just an excuse for some evil minded comedian to push his ideology?

For you, Sandinista...

Thanks for the flowers...no not simply an excuse for an evil minded comedian to push his ideology, but he certainly does push an ideology. Does on his tv show as well. Besides, obviously, pushing a neo liberal ideology, the rally probably had a lot of reasons for existing...rallying democratic support, countering the tea baggers, publicity for Stewart etc.

[sandinista]

Who were the old school liberals? When did 'neo-liebralism' start?

You mean you DON'T KNOW??? Something you DON'T KNOW???....can't be.

[Trolldor]

I could be a goddamn vegetable and I'd still be one up from you old man.

[sandinista]

what are you talking about old timer? You're the smartest guy on this forum by far! Hence the utter shock that there is something you don't know.

[Trolldor]

Yes, bask in my magnificent glory. I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the end. Adore me or perish.

Now answer the question.