Four-yr-old sued in NY

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Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by FBM » Sat Oct 30, 2010 6:38 am

I mean, damn. Just...damn. :nono:



A New York child can be sued for crashing a bicycle into an elderly pedestrian and causing injuries that led to her death, a judge has ruled.

Juliet Breitman and another child were four years old when they raced their small bicycles on a Manhattan street and ran into Claire Menagh, 87.

Juliet's lawyer had argued Juliet was too young to be held negligent.

The judge disagreed, ruling Juliet's lawyer had presented no evidence she lacked intelligence or maturity.

According to court filings, in April 2009, Juliet Breitman and Jacob Kohn were accompanied by their mothers, Dana Breitman and Rachel Kohn, as they raced their bicycles along the pavement near the East River in New York's Manhattan borough.

'No bright line'

The children struck Ms Menagh, knocking her to the ground. She underwent surgery for a fractured hip and died three months later.

Ms Menagh - and later her son, acting as executor of her estate - sued the children, arguing they were "negligent in their operation and control of their bicycles". The estate also sued Dana Breitman and Rachel Kohn, saying they had consented to the race.

Juliet's lawyer sought to have the case dismissed, filing with the court a copy of Juliet's birth certificate showing she was four years and nine months old at the time of the accident.

Citing several cases involving young children who had been in accidents, New York Supreme Court Judge Paul Wooten ruled that Juliet, now six years old, could be sued.

While he noted that the law presumes children under age four are incapable of negligence, "for infants above the age of four, there is no bright line rule", he wrote in the decision.

He also wrote that the Juliet's lawyer had presented no evidence as to the child's lack of intelligence or maturity, nor that "a child of similar age and capacity" would not have understood the danger of riding a bicycle into an old woman.
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by Clinton Huxley » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:00 am

Wonder if I can sue the mini huxleys for stress and lack if sleep. Hmmmm.

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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by FBM » Sat Oct 30, 2010 7:25 am

If you lived in NY, you probably could. But then, as the minis don't have incomes, their parents would have to cough up the dough...
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken

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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by Clinton Huxley » Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:23 am

FBM wrote:If you lived in NY, you probably could. But then, as the minis don't have incomes, their parents would have to cough up the dough...
I'm sure there is a way round this catch 22 with a clever enough lawyer

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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by charlou » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:10 am

Hang them :mob:


FFS, what is it? Vengence .. spite .. greed??? How ridiculous. :nono:
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by FBM » Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:03 am

I'm gonna go with greed, with a side order of stupidity.
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by hadespussercats » Sun Oct 31, 2010 3:28 am

Well, suing the children successfully is downright ridiculous. I wouldn't blame them for suing the parents, though-- in my neighborhood, kids (and sometimes adults) race down the sidewalk on scooters, bikes, and skateboards, with no regard for the possibility of a mother with a stroller, or an elderly person, walking on the hill below them. This regularly makes me very angry. Especially because it's a sideWALK, and those wheeled vehicles should be in the street with all the other wheeled vehicles.

Now, if you have a four-year old who's learning to ride, at the park or somewhere, then they should be supervised carefully. Why? Because they're little kids who don't know how to ride yet. And they could hurt somebody, including themselves.

This probably makes me sound like a massive bitch. Ah well.
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by JimC » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:09 am

hadespussercats wrote:Well, suing the children successfully is downright ridiculous. I wouldn't blame them for suing the parents, though-- in my neighborhood, kids (and sometimes adults) race down the sidewalk on scooters, bikes, and skateboards, with no regard for the possibility of a mother with a stroller, or an elderly person, walking on the hill below them. This regularly makes me very angry. Especially because it's a sideWALK, and those wheeled vehicles should be in the street with all the other wheeled vehicles.

Now, if you have a four-year old who's learning to ride, at the park or somewhere, then they should be supervised carefully. Why? Because they're little kids who don't know how to ride yet. And they could hurt somebody, including themselves.

This probably makes me sound like a massive bitch. Ah well.
No, a perfectly rational response... :tup:
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by charlou » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:13 am

hadespussercats wrote:Well, suing the children successfully is downright ridiculous. I wouldn't blame them for suing the parents, though-- in my neighborhood, kids (and sometimes adults) race down the sidewalk on scooters, bikes, and skateboards, with no regard for the possibility of a mother with a stroller, or an elderly person, walking on the hill below them. This regularly makes me very angry. Especially because it's a sideWALK, and those wheeled vehicles should be in the street with all the other wheeled vehicles.

Now, if you have a four-year old who's learning to ride, at the park or somewhere, then they should be supervised carefully. Why? Because they're little kids who don't know how to ride yet. And they could hurt somebody, including themselves.

This probably makes me sound like a massive bitch. Ah well.
It doesn't. I agree with you, really.

If anything, the plaintiff should be going after the responsible adult/s, not the child/ren. Not only that, criminal negligence on their part could also be considered.

But, personally, I'm inclined to think .. and maybe this would come out in a trial ... that accidents happen and sometimes the consequences are awful. I think the accidental death of that woman is awful enough for all involved, really. :(
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by hadespussercats » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:39 pm

Charlou wrote:
hadespussercats wrote:Well, suing the children successfully is downright ridiculous. I wouldn't blame them for suing the parents, though-- in my neighborhood, kids (and sometimes adults) race down the sidewalk on scooters, bikes, and skateboards, with no regard for the possibility of a mother with a stroller, or an elderly person, walking on the hill below them. This regularly makes me very angry. Especially because it's a sideWALK, and those wheeled vehicles should be in the street with all the other wheeled vehicles.

Now, if you have a four-year old who's learning to ride, at the park or somewhere, then they should be supervised carefully. Why? Because they're little kids who don't know how to ride yet. And they could hurt somebody, including themselves.

This probably makes me sound like a massive bitch. Ah well.
It doesn't. I agree with you, really.

If anything, the plaintiff should be going after the responsible adult/s, not the child/ren. Not only that, criminal negligence on their part could also be considered.

But, personally, I'm inclined to think .. and maybe this would come out in a trial ... that accidents happen and sometimes the consequences are awful. I think the accidental death of that woman is awful enough for all involved, really. :(
You mean accept that bad things happen to good people without a lawsuit involved? Not very American of you.
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by JimC » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:46 pm

hadespussercats wrote:
Charlou wrote:
hadespussercats wrote:Well, suing the children successfully is downright ridiculous. I wouldn't blame them for suing the parents, though-- in my neighborhood, kids (and sometimes adults) race down the sidewalk on scooters, bikes, and skateboards, with no regard for the possibility of a mother with a stroller, or an elderly person, walking on the hill below them. This regularly makes me very angry. Especially because it's a sideWALK, and those wheeled vehicles should be in the street with all the other wheeled vehicles.

Now, if you have a four-year old who's learning to ride, at the park or somewhere, then they should be supervised carefully. Why? Because they're little kids who don't know how to ride yet. And they could hurt somebody, including themselves.

This probably makes me sound like a massive bitch. Ah well.
It doesn't. I agree with you, really.

If anything, the plaintiff should be going after the responsible adult/s, not the child/ren. Not only that, criminal negligence on their part could also be considered.

But, personally, I'm inclined to think .. and maybe this would come out in a trial ... that accidents happen and sometimes the consequences are awful. I think the accidental death of that woman is awful enough for all involved, really. :(
You mean accept that bad things happen to good people without a lawsuit involved? Not very American of you.
:hehe: You do know our Charlou is an Aussie girl, don't you?
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by hadespussercats » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:55 pm

JimC wrote:
hadespussercats wrote:
Charlou wrote:
hadespussercats wrote:Well, suing the children successfully is downright ridiculous. I wouldn't blame them for suing the parents, though-- in my neighborhood, kids (and sometimes adults) race down the sidewalk on scooters, bikes, and skateboards, with no regard for the possibility of a mother with a stroller, or an elderly person, walking on the hill below them. This regularly makes me very angry. Especially because it's a sideWALK, and those wheeled vehicles should be in the street with all the other wheeled vehicles.

Now, if you have a four-year old who's learning to ride, at the park or somewhere, then they should be supervised carefully. Why? Because they're little kids who don't know how to ride yet. And they could hurt somebody, including themselves.

This probably makes me sound like a massive bitch. Ah well.
It doesn't. I agree with you, really.

If anything, the plaintiff should be going after the responsible adult/s, not the child/ren. Not only that, criminal negligence on their part could also be considered.

But, personally, I'm inclined to think .. and maybe this would come out in a trial ... that accidents happen and sometimes the consequences are awful. I think the accidental death of that woman is awful enough for all involved, really. :(
You mean accept that bad things happen to good people without a lawsuit involved? Not very American of you.
:hehe: You do know our Charlou is an Aussie girl, don't you?
Well, that would explain it.
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by maiforpeace » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:05 pm

Since when has law been based on logic? :hehe:

There must have been a precedent for the judge to base this ruling on. I'd be interested in hearing about any prior case where a child four years and older was found to be negligent. Apparently the controversy is over the cut off age of four, which I would expect would be based on a prior case.

The judge is letting the case proceed because these particular children were over the age of four, and closer to five years old. :dono:

If they can sue more than just the parents for negligence, they probably can get more money - which is what this is about, isn't it?
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by hadespussercats » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:11 pm

maiforpeace wrote:Since when has law been based on logic? :hehe:

There must have been a precedent for the judge to base this ruling on. I'd be interested in hearing about any prior case where a child four years and older was found to be negligent. Apparently the controversy is over the cut off age of four, which I would expect would be based on a prior case.

The judge is letting the case proceed because these particular children were over the age of four, and closer to five years old. :dono:

If they can sue more than just the parents for negligence, they probably can get more money - which is what this is about, isn't it?
Except I think the kids might have to pay in gum.
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Re: Four-yr-old sued in NY

Post by beige » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:58 pm

FBM wrote:Juliet's lawyer had argued Juliet was too young to be held negligent.

The judge disagreed, ruling Juliet's lawyer had presented no evidence she lacked intelligence or maturity.
Unable to prove that a 4 year old lacked maturity? Either a very crappy lawyer or a really stupid judge. :roll:
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