Germany rejects multiculturalism

[leo-rcc]

I can't back it up with any statistics, but I think that if a similar poll was held in the Netherlands the outcome would not be that different.

[Warren Dew]

I could point out that the percentage of Germans that think the Jews have too much influence are probably Turkish Muslims .

Good point.

So who are the 60% that don't like muslims?

[Svartalf]

...17 percent think Jews have “too much influence”

17% is remarkably high.

Christ, you'd think that after everything that happened...

You don't go from murdering millions of people because they're Jewish to thinking only good thoughts in just a few years. People hate Jews, and even when people think it's wrong to kill them or discriminate them, the ideas that they are insular, cheap, scheming, grasping and controlling are passed down to each succeeding generation. Huge percentages of Europeans have hated Jews since there were Jews in Europe.

Hey, those ideas are 100% true, just ask Gawd.

[Gawd]

Hardy har har, Svartalf.

Somehow, I think you guys are only talking about this article because it involves Jews.

[hadespussercats]

Well, America has such shining examples of open-mindedness towards race and immigration as Lou Dobbs and the government of the State of Arizona-- and those are just the first two I could think of.

Besides-- finding out that many Germans would prefer a homogeneous culture and that they feel superior to people of different ethnic backgrounds? What a freaking surprise. I'm totally shocked.

[Robert_S]

As a person whose family is predominantly German, this thread has gotten me to ponder the age-old question posed by Stan Marsh:
"Dude, what the fuck is wrong with German people?"

[charlou]

Germany rejects multiculturalism

Really ... ?

Not sure what to think of this.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel told a gathering of young members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party this weekend that the "multikulti" concept – where people of different backgrounds would live together happily – does not work in Germany....

And her comments come just days after a study by the Friedrich Ebert Foundation think tank (which is affiliated with the center-left Social Democratic Party) found that more than 30 percent of people believed Germany was "overrun by foreigners" who had come to Germany chiefly for its social benefits. Presumably, almost 70% do not.

The study also found that 13 percent of Germans would welcome a “Führer” – a German word for leader that is explicitly associated with Adolf Hitler (disingenuously misleading) – to run the country “with a firm hand.”Presumably, 87% would not.
Some 60 percent of Germans would “restrict the practice of Islam,” Presumably, 40% would not. Personally, I would agree with not allowing Islamic practices that are in breach of the local laws, laws which are based on ethics and human rights, not superstition, misogyny and barbarism. and 17 percent think Jews have “too much influence,” Presumably, 83% do not. according to the study.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-N ... rly-failed

[Warren Dew]

Really ... ?

You point out issues with the earlier survey, but you said nothing about Merkel's speech which actually rejected multiculturalism.

[Warren Dew]

Multiculturalism is the problem. The assumption that you can throw a bunch of cultures together in a single space and then let them operate independantly. Of course, I think a lot of people mislabel something as 'multicultural' simply because there's more than one culture there.

I don't think Merkel is necessarily wrong in saying that multiculturalism doesn't work, especially when combined with multilingualism that creates language barriers within the population.

The real question is, if multiculturalism "is the problem", as you put it, what is being proposed as the solution?

[charlou]

So who are the 60% that don't like muslims?

"Restricting the practice of Islam" =/= "don't like muslims"

[charlou]

Really ... ?

You point out issues with the earlier survey, but you said nothing about Merkel's speech which actually rejected multiculturalism.

Glad you edited that .. I was going to point out what I think about your previous version ..

I'll take a look at Merkel's speech .. Is Merkel Germany?

[Chinaski]

Merkel was very careful not to mention any explicit ethnicities, but everyone knows who she's talking about. If you look at the history and statistics about Gastarbeiter in Germany, there is a strong presence of integration and cultural assimilation. For example,

In many cases the Gastarbeiter integrated neatly into the German society. Dietrich Tränhardt did some scientific work on the integration of the Spanish Gastarbeiter. While many Spanish that came to Germany were illiterate peasants, their offspring were successful when it came to academic achievement (see: Academic achievement among different groups in Germany) and did well on the job market. Spanish were also very likely to marry Germans, which can be counted as a sign of assimilation. According to a study in 2000 81,2% of all Spanish children in Germany were from a interracial Spanish-German family.[3]

Even more impressive is what happened to the Vietnamese:

The children of the Vietnamese Gastarbeiter caused what has been called the "vietnamese miracle".[9] As shown by a study while in the districts of Lichtenberg and Marzahn, Vietnamese account for only 2 percent of the general population, they make up 17 percent of the university preparatory school population of those districts.[10] According to the headmaster of the Barnim Gymnasium, a university preoparatory school that has a focus on the natural sciences, 30 percent of the schools freshmen come from Vietnamese families.[11]

Almost every single cultural group of Gastarbeiter in Germany manages to integrate and respect the country whose benefits they left home to enjoy.
Except the Turkish Muslims. There are areas in German cities where you can walk for two hours and never hear a word of German. The families don't marry outside their culture, the children go to majorly Turkish schools, and the Muslim inferiority complex of hating the advantages they've come to enjoy in Germany still holds fast. Merkel's speech was for the Turks- either respect Western, German, post-Enlightenment values, or get the fuck out.

And I have to say, I heartily agree.

[redunderthebed]

Um chinaski im sure there is xtians and other religious people who dont agree with those values do they have to fuck off?.In fact you'd find that pope ratz a kraut last time i checked would rail against such beliefs and has done so.

Anyway its a democracy which means people dont have to agree to shit if they so choose.It is one of the great lies perpetuated by the reich right that multiculturalism does not work it does maybe not perfectly but it does it just doesn't fit into many people of the right and populist right worldview.

[Chinaski]

Um chinaski im sure there is xtians and other religious people who dont agree with those values do they have to fuck off?.In fact you'd find that pope ratz a kraut last time i checked would rail against such beliefs and has done so.

Anyway its a democracy which means people dont have to agree to shit if they so choose.It is one of the great lies perpetuated by the reich right that multiculturalism does not work it does maybe not perfectly but it does it just doesn't fit into many people of the right and populist right worldview.

The Turkish cultural group does not contribute to the German state, while taking advantage of the generous social service offered by the country. When I move to another country, I adapt to the lifestyle. I've worn a kilt and had balmoral topping on a burger. And I'm a fascist if I think that citizens should respect secular values?

[Hermit]

Almost every single cultural group of Gastarbeiter in Germany manages to integrate and respect the country whose benefits they left home to enjoy.
Except the Turkish Muslims. There are areas in German cities where you can walk for two hours and never hear a word of German. The families don't marry outside their culture, the children go to majorly Turkish schools, and the Muslim inferiority complex of hating the advantages they've come to enjoy in Germany still holds fast. Merkel's speech was for the Turks- either respect Western, German, post-Enlightenment values, or get the fuck out.

And I have to say, I heartily agree.

Regarding Turkish Gastarbeiter, there is a flip-side to their behaviour. They were actually encouraged to come to Germany in order to fill job vacancies that have become too demeaning for a good German Spiessbürger that almost all its citizens had become by the time the post war economic miracle arrived. By the mid-sixties there were over a million of them, and they were treated with the same attitude that the Germans had with the work they were paid to do: despised, isolated and excluded from public view. They were ghettoised, not just in the mental but also in the physical sense. On the outskirts of my hometown were barrack-like quarters with sinks outside each living module for male (almost all Gastarbeiter from Turkey were male) cubicle to wash up after work. I saw one of those during a walk with some adult Germans. Not knowing what these strange, unfamiliar constructions were, and having my curiosity further aroused by their desolation and ugliness, I pointed and asked: "What is that?" One of the adults replied in a tone indicating this was going to be all I needed to know: "Gastarbeiter", and we walked on. The subject was never raised again.

Most Turkish Guest workers stayed in Germany for many years, and frequently for decades, which created another problem: the legal status of children of Gastarbeiter that were born and raised in Germany. In dealing with that issue the Germans did not exactly cover themselves with glory, to say the least.

After decades of such treatment, I guess the chickens have come home to roost for the Germans.