Why shoot to kill?
Re: Why shoot to kill?
Why would they need grenades when they can take him out with a well placed shot? No collateral.
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
Aha, but US special forces just accidentally killed a hostage with a grenade, did they not?mistermack wrote:A job for US special forces with grenades then.The Mad Hatter wrote: No, because there was an injured girl they needed to rescue.
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Well placed shots, bosh: job done.

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Re: Why shoot to kill?
Yes they did. I was just being sarky. There was no injured girl. Mad Hatter dreampt it.Tigger wrote: Aha, but US special forces just accidentally killed a hostage with a grenade, did they not?
Well placed shots, bosh: job done.
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
Anyway, he won't do it again now. 


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Re: Why shoot to kill?
One of the police gave the game away with a comment later.
He was asked why they didn't use a Tazer shotgun, and he said that that would have put the officer within range of the shotgun.
They knew they were safe.
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He was asked why they didn't use a Tazer shotgun, and he said that that would have put the officer within range of the shotgun.
They knew they were safe.
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
No, if you are targeting a criminal you aim for the centre of mass, and that just happens to be where the heart is, the object of the exercise is to protect innocent people, the moment someone picks up a gun and takes hostages they throw away any right to live beyond that day. And before you come out with some tripe about mental instability, or emotional problems, or any of that nonsense, a person in that condition, with access to guns, is a very real threat to the safety of those around them.mistermack wrote:It was clearly practical to do so.Pappa wrote:Because it isn't practical to do so.mistermack wrote:My question is why don't they shoot to wound in these situations?
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
Why change the subject? I'm talking about situations where they clearly don't need to shoot to kill. Not hostage situations.Don't Panic wrote: No, if you are targeting a criminal you aim for the centre of mass, and that just happens to be where the heart is, the object of the exercise is to protect innocent people, the moment someone picks up a gun and takes hostages they throw away any right to live beyond that day. And before you come out with some tripe about mental instability, or emotional problems, or any of that nonsense, a person in that condition, with access to guns, is a very real threat to the safety of those around them.
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
Doesn't matter, an armed criminal is a legitimate target. Shooting to wound means aiming for the periphery, and a greater chance of the shot missing.mistermack wrote:Why change the subject? I'm talking about situations where they clearly don't need to shoot to kill. Not hostage situations.Don't Panic wrote: No, if you are targeting a criminal you aim for the centre of mass, and that just happens to be where the heart is, the object of the exercise is to protect innocent people, the moment someone picks up a gun and takes hostages they throw away any right to live beyond that day. And before you come out with some tripe about mental instability, or emotional problems, or any of that nonsense, a person in that condition, with access to guns, is a very real threat to the safety of those around them.
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Gawd wrote:»
And those Zumwalts are already useless, they can be taken out with an ICBM.
The world is a thing of utter inordinate complexity and richness and strangeness that is absolutely awesome. I mean the idea that such complexity can arise not only out of such simplicity, but probably absolutely out of nothing, is the most fabulous extraordinary idea. And once you get some kind of inkling of how that might have happened, it's just wonderful. And . . . the opportunity to spend 70 or 80 years of your life in such a universe is time well spent as far as I am concerned.
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
I've never fired a gun but from what I understand it's not always as easy as "just shoot him in the arm" or just shoot him in the leg" often the guy is moving and returning fire.
In which instance it's going to be hard to do anything but aim to kill, The centre mass is the biggest target, better to get a shot on the guy than to completely miss and give him reason to start shooting civilians.
In which instance it's going to be hard to do anything but aim to kill, The centre mass is the biggest target, better to get a shot on the guy than to completely miss and give him reason to start shooting civilians.
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
I don't think you've bothered to read what this is about.Don't Panic wrote: Doesn't matter, an armed criminal is a legitimate target. Shooting to wound means aiming for the periphery, and a greater chance of the shot missing.
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
From your OP:mistermack wrote:I don't think you've bothered to read what this is about.Don't Panic wrote: Doesn't matter, an armed criminal is a legitimate target. Shooting to wound means aiming for the periphery, and a greater chance of the shot missing.
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That is why you shoot to kill. He wasn't worried about shooting to wound, was he?The latest example was a lawyer in London, who snapped, and started shooting out of his window with a shotgun.
Gawd wrote:»
And those Zumwalts are already useless, they can be taken out with an ICBM.
The world is a thing of utter inordinate complexity and richness and strangeness that is absolutely awesome. I mean the idea that such complexity can arise not only out of such simplicity, but probably absolutely out of nothing, is the most fabulous extraordinary idea. And once you get some kind of inkling of how that might have happened, it's just wonderful. And . . . the opportunity to spend 70 or 80 years of your life in such a universe is time well spent as far as I am concerned.
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
I don't think you've bothered to read what this is about either. There WAS no chance of civilians getting hurt. There WAS no chance of officers getting hurt. This was the end of a five hour stand-off, with a suicidal drunken barrister.Link wrote:I've never fired a gun but from what I understand it's not always as easy as "just shoot him in the arm" or just shoot him in the leg" often the guy is moving and returning fire.
In which instance it's going to be hard to do anything but aim to kill, The centre mass is the biggest target, better to get a shot on the guy than to completely miss and give him reason to start shooting civilians.
Lee Harvey Oswald hit Kennedy in the head from a long way off, in a moving car, with a gun made fifty years ago.
He wasn't a marksman. They definitely COULD have wounded this guy. There is no doubt about it.
See the video clip that tigger linked. A police marksman shot the gun out of a suicides hand. It can and has been done.
In a case like this, where nobody is in any real danger, why not?
If you miss, so what?
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
Because it's too dangerous to take the risk and it's too difficult to attempt a non-lethal shot (too random a chance too).mistermack wrote:I'm asking why shoot to kill, why do they never shoot to incapacitate or wound?
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
This was at the end of a five hour stand-off. He wanted to get shot. He knew, just as well as everybody else, that he wasn't going to kill anyone at a distance with a bird gun. The shotgun was there to get them to shoot him. He said on the phone over and over that he was only a danger to himself.Don't Panic wrote:From your OP:mistermack wrote:I don't think you've bothered to read what this is about.Don't Panic wrote: Doesn't matter, an armed criminal is a legitimate target. Shooting to wound means aiming for the periphery, and a greater chance of the shot missing.
.That is why you shoot to kill. He wasn't worried about shooting to wound, was he?The latest example was a lawyer in London, who snapped, and started shooting out of his window with a shotgun.
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Re: Why shoot to kill?
Where does it say that the shotgun was firing pellets? How do you know he wasn't using slugs? He was unstable, why should anyone believe him if he says he's only a danger to himself?mistermack wrote:This was at the end of a five hour stand-off. He wanted to get shot. He knew, just as well as everybody else, that he wasn't going to kill anyone at a distance with a bird gun. The shotgun was there to get them to shoot him. He said on the phone over and over that he was only a danger to himself.Don't Panic wrote:From your OP:mistermack wrote:I don't think you've bothered to read what this is about.Don't Panic wrote: Doesn't matter, an armed criminal is a legitimate target. Shooting to wound means aiming for the periphery, and a greater chance of the shot missing.
.That is why you shoot to kill. He wasn't worried about shooting to wound, was he?The latest example was a lawyer in London, who snapped, and started shooting out of his window with a shotgun.
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Gawd wrote:»
And those Zumwalts are already useless, they can be taken out with an ICBM.
The world is a thing of utter inordinate complexity and richness and strangeness that is absolutely awesome. I mean the idea that such complexity can arise not only out of such simplicity, but probably absolutely out of nothing, is the most fabulous extraordinary idea. And once you get some kind of inkling of how that might have happened, it's just wonderful. And . . . the opportunity to spend 70 or 80 years of your life in such a universe is time well spent as far as I am concerned.
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