Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Koran Burning, fun for the whole family?

I disapprove of Koran burning under any circumstances.
1
3%
I approve of Koran burning anytime someone wants to do it, within applicable fire codes.
15
50%
I approve of Koran burning/desecration if it is done to protest a call for murder of Koran burners/desecrators.
2
7%
Other
5
17%
Cheese/Bacon
6
20%
Cheese only, because bacon is offensive to Muslims.
1
3%
 
Total votes: 30

User avatar
Toontown
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:26 am
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by Toontown » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:48 am

If I had a Koran handy, I would do bad things to it. Every time a muslim pissed me off, I'd rip a few pages out and use them for ass wipe. But I'm not going to buy one. It's not worth it.

The GZ mosque is dead. It will not be built.

The scrutiny will be too intense. The funding, should it come, will be investigated, which means, in effect, that it won't be funded. That fool who threatened dire consequences if the mosque is not built should have eaten his foot before saying that. That was piss ignorant.

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 74216
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by JimC » Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:32 am

Toontown wrote:If I had a Koran handy, I would do bad things to it. Every time a muslim pissed me off, I'd rip a few pages out and use them for ass wipe. But I'm not going to buy one. It's not worth it.

The GZ mosque is dead. It will not be built.

The scrutiny will be too intense. The funding, should it come, will be investigated, which means, in effect, that it won't be funded. That fool who threatened dire consequences if the mosque is not built should have eaten his foot before saying that. That was piss ignorant.
I think you might be over-optimistic about it not being built (for the record, I hope it's not...)

There is a lot of pressure from that side of American politics that takes tolerance just a tad too far...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
JOZeldenrust
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:49 am
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by JOZeldenrust » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:16 am

The Koran is a book. You just don't burn books unless you're very, very cold. Leave the barbarism to the barbarians.

User avatar
Toontown
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:26 am
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by Toontown » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:01 pm

JOZeldenrust wrote:The Koran is a book. You just don't burn books unless you're very, very cold. Leave the barbarism to the barbarians.
That's quite a stretch, equating burning a book with barbarism. Do you really think books are holy? What about phone books? Are they holy? Phone books certainly contain far more useful information than korans and bibles. But that didn't stop me from tossing several of them in the trash last week. They are now moldering in a landfill.

Besides, burning a book as a form of protest is not the same as banning it. I could burn a book, and then everyone could run to the library and buy a copy of it.

I say use books in whatever manner you choose to use them, and if any control freak doesn't like it, be unconcerned. Be very unconcerned.

User avatar
Thinking Aloud
Page Bottomer
Posts: 20111
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 10:56 am
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by Thinking Aloud » Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:11 pm

Toontown wrote:I say use books in whatever manner you choose to use them, and if any control freak doesn't like it, be unconcerned. Be very unconcerned.
:dance:

Coito ergo sum
Posts: 32040
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:09 pm

JOZeldenrust wrote:The Koran is a book. You just don't burn books unless you're very, very cold. Leave the barbarism to the barbarians.
I think the nonsense from Ayatollahs and Imams needs to be resisted, and resisted hard. For every threat they make to kill a cartoonist, 100 cartoons should be drawn, each more disrespectful than the last. For every movie maker threatened for making a movie that bothers some Muslim, 10 movies should be made, each more critical of Islam than the last. For each author Fatwa-ed, 10 more people who always wanted to write something should publish their negative opinions and critical commentaries of the Islamic cult. For each person murdered in the name of Islam, free peoples everywhere must stand opposed. For when we let oppressors prevail, we sell out our children's future for a little peace and a little safety.

What we all must remember is that a person burning a stinking Koran is not an oppressor. Muslim Ayatollas and Imams are oppressors. Muslim governments are oppressors. They are all tyrants and theocratic despots, each with their boots on the necks of the individual. Muslim nations are oppressors, and discriminators against women systematically and unapologetically. They are, with the power of the state, homophobic, xenophobic, racist, ethnocentric, misogynistic and generally hateful, relegating the majorities of their populations to second class citizen status.

Free peoples in the world must draw the line: this far, and no further. They can sell their Muslim shit somewhere else.

I don't believe in book burning, because of the Nazi connotations and the Fahrenheit 451 implications. However, tell me you'll kill me if I burn a Koran. I'll piss on the piece of shit to try to make it burn slower so I can enjoy watching it burn a little longer.

User avatar
JOZeldenrust
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:49 am
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by JOZeldenrust » Thu Sep 16, 2010 4:14 pm

Toontown wrote:
JOZeldenrust wrote:The Koran is a book. You just don't burn books unless you're very, very cold. Leave the barbarism to the barbarians.
That's quite a stretch, equating burning a book with barbarism. Do you really think books are holy?
No, books aren't holy. They're harmless. They're also works of art. Destroying anything simply for the sake of destruction, or as a socio-political statement, is something I just can't support. As a socio-political statement, burning a Koran just isn't productive. Antagonizing the Muslim world against the democratic West isn't going to help them develop into a society that has a healthy respect for personal freedom. It'll only strengthen them in their perception of the West as the enemy.
What about phone books? Are they holy? Phone books certainly contain far more useful information than korans and bibles. But that didn't stop me from tossing several of them in the trash last week. They are now moldering in a landfill.
While the information in a phone book might be more practical than the information in a Koran, it is much more sensitive to becoming redundant, and much less aesthetically pleasing.
Besides, burning a book as a form of protest is not the same as banning it. I could burn a book, and then everyone could run to the library and buy a copy of it.

I say use books in whatever manner you choose to use them, and if any control freak doesn't like it, be unconcerned. Be very unconcerned.
I don't mean to say you shouldn't be allowed to burn a Koran (providing you observe measures to prevent injuring others). I think you should have the right to do whatever you want with your property as long as it doesn't interfere with the lives of others. I just think it's stupid to excersize that right in this way.

Coito ergo sum
Posts: 32040
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:05 pm

JOZeldenrust wrote:
Toontown wrote:
JOZeldenrust wrote:The Koran is a book. You just don't burn books unless you're very, very cold. Leave the barbarism to the barbarians.
That's quite a stretch, equating burning a book with barbarism. Do you really think books are holy?
No, books aren't holy. They're harmless. They're also works of art. Destroying anything simply for the sake of destruction, or as a socio-political statement, is something I just can't support. As a socio-political statement, burning a Koran just isn't productive. Antagonizing the Muslim world against the democratic West isn't going to help them develop into a society that has a healthy respect for personal freedom. It'll only strengthen them in their perception of the West as the enemy.
"Destroying anything...as a socio-political statement, is something I just can't support." Flag burnings? Effigies? Tearing up symbols? Draft cards?

Burning a book, I think, is NORMALLY pointless and stupid. I think, however, that it can be appropriate if someone is demanding under threat that one refrain from it. For example, if someone says "You will not draw Muhammed, or we keeeel you!!!!" - then I say, draw the heck out of it. Likewise, if someone says, "you burn the Koran and you die!" - I say, "smoke 'em if you got 'em!"

Until the "Muslim world" (whatever that is) is able to sit still for offensive rhetoric, there will be no respect on their part for individual liberty. To that extent, it's not just a perception of enemy status. They are the enemy, if they will not respect individual liberty.

Trolldor
Gargling with Nails
Posts: 15878
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:57 am
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by Trolldor » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:16 pm

Censorship is barbarism.
If you are burning books to remove public access to them, then yes you are barbaric.
But if you are burning a book held to be sacred to a Bronze Age ideology full of hatred and bigotry, which demands obedience and subservience from both believers and unbelievers alike, and if you are burning that book in protest to their ideas and insults? Here is a match and a free copy.
Even if I don't principally agree with your stance, I will forever act to protect your freedom of expression.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

Coito ergo sum
Posts: 32040
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by Coito ergo sum » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:44 pm

I wonder what the thread count is on a Koran? Are the pages good to use, or is it abrasive in that sensitive area?

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 74216
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by JimC » Thu Sep 16, 2010 9:52 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:I wonder what the thread count is on a Koran? Are the pages good to use, or is it abrasive in that sensitive area?
Well, you can describe it as a tissue of lies... ;)
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Stabsobermaschinist
Posts: 151265
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 am
About me: My posts are related to the thread in the same way Gliese 651b is related to your mother's underwear drawer.
Location: Sitting next to Ayaan in Domus Draconis, and communicating via PMs.
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:32 pm

PeeZed posted the "official" response to all this.
Subject: Supreme Leader's Message

Dear Sir/Madam

Please find attached the text of the message of the Supreme Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran on the desecration of the Holy Quran in the United States.

Regards

In the Name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful

"It is we who sent down the Koran, and we watch over it," says God

the Mighty, the Wise [Holy Quran, 15:9]

Great Iranian nation, great Islamic Ummah!

The insane, revolting insult to the Holy Quran in America, an incident occurring under the security provided by the US police, is a major tragic event that cannot be considered merely as the foolish act of a few worthless mercenaries. This is a preplanned act by those who since years ago have put Islamophobic and anti-Muslim policies on their agenda and have tried to combat Islam and the Quran in numerous ways resorting to a myriad of propaganda means and campaigns. This is another link in a chain of shameless measures launched with the blasphemy of Salman Rushdi, the apostate, followed by the insult of the base Danish caricaturist, tens of anti-Islamic movies produced in Hollywood and now crowned by this disgusting show. Who and what is behind such evil acts?

Looking into this trend of evil, as manifested in recent years in atrocious operations in Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon and Pakistan, leaves no doubt that it is designed and masterminded by heads of world imperialism and Zionist think tanks which have the highest degree of influence in the government, the military and security agencies of the United States as well as Britain and some other European countries. These are those at whom the finger of suspicion of independent truth-finding groups and individuals is pointed in the case of the attack on the Twin Towers on September the 11th. The then-president of the US, a criminal, was provided with the pretext to invade Iraq and Afghanistan; he declared a Crusade and, reportedly, has said yesterday that with the Church entering the stage the Crusade has truly begun.

What is aimed at through the recent repulsive incident is, on the one hand, to take the confrontation with Islam and Muslims to the populace in the Christian community, to give it a religious coloring and entrenching it with religious zeal and sentiment by involving the church and, on the other, to divert the attention of the Muslim nations, enraged and hurt by this hideous effrontery, away from the issues and developments in the Muslim world and the Middle East.

This vengeful act is not the beginning of a trend but another stage in the long history of antagonizing Islam headed by Zionism and the US government. Now all the heads of world hegemony and impiety are ranked against Islam. Islam is the religion of human liberation and spirituality, and the Quran is the book of compassion, wisdom and justice. It is incumbent upon all free-spirited people of the world and all the followers of the Abrahamic religions to side with the Muslims in countering these heinous anti-Islamic policies and acts. Empty, deceitful words cannot exonerate the heads of the American government from the charge of involvement in this ugly phenomenon. For years those things held sacred by millions of oppressed Muslims in Afghanistan and Pakistan, in Iraq, in Lebanon and Palestine have been desecrated, all their rights and their dignity trampled on. Hundreds of thousands killed, tens of thousands of men and women captured and tortured, thousands of children and women kidnapped, and millions injured and made homeless - all victimized for what? And with these wrongs, why does the Western media represent Muslims as violence incarnate and Islam, and the Quran, as a menace to humanity? How can one believe that this vast conspiracy could be made possible without the support and involvement of the Zionist circles in the US government?! O Muslim brethren and sisters in Iran and all over the world! It is necessary to draw the attention of all to the following points: First, this incident and similar ones show that what is now being targeted by the global hegemony and world Imperialism are the very foundations of the dear Islam, and the Holy Quran. The manifest enmity of the arrogant world powers towards the Islamic Republic of Iran is because of the manifest resistance of Iran against them; the claim of these powers in not being the enemies of other Muslims, and of Islam, is a big lie, a satanic deception. They are the enemies of Islam, whoever believes in it, and whatever signifies it.

Second, these spiteful acts against Islam and Muslims stem from the fact that since a few decades ago the light of Islam has been shining brighter than ever, its grip on the hearts and souls in the Muslim world and even in the West has been stronger than ever before. It stems from the fact that the Islamic Ummah is now more awake than ever and is determined to free itself of the shackles of two centuries of colonialism and interference. The incident of insulting the Quran and the Great Prophet of Islam despite all its bitterness bears great tidings. The bright sun of the Quran will shine brighter than ever.

Third, we should all know that this incident has nothing to do with Christianity and the Church; we should not regard the puppet-like acts of a few idiotic and mercenary priests as those of Christians and church men. We Muslims will never commit similar acts against what are held sacred in other religions. Conflict between Muslims and Christians, on a popular scale, is what our enemies and the stagers of this insane show are after. What the Quran teaches us is diametrically opposed to this. Fourth, today the protests of all Muslims are directed at the US government and American politicians. If they are honest in their claim of not being involved in this, they must duly punish the main planners and operators of this heinous crime who have hurt the feelings of one and a half billion Muslims the world over.

And peace is on him who follows piety.

Sayyed Ali Khamenei

September 13, 2010
Image
Ein Ubootsoldat wrote:“Ich melde mich ab. Grüssen Sie bitte meine Kameraden.”

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by Hermit » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:04 pm

Sayyed Ali Khamenei wrote:Islam is the religion of human liberation and spirituality, and the Quran is the book of compassion, wisdom and justice. ... why does the Western media represent Muslims as violence incarnate and Islam, and the Quran, as a menace to humanity?
WTF?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
charlou
arseist
Posts: 32530
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:36 am

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by charlou » Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:22 pm

JOZeldenrust wrote:The Koran is a book. You just don't burn books unless you're very, very cold. Leave the barbarism to the barbarians.
That's your value judgement. Are you going to send out a fatwa on any Koran burners based on that?

I think burning the Koran is symbolic .. I'd burn one and a copy of the babble too if I thought it would achieve anything momentous. I agree with coito's position about it .. it's a fucking token gesture amounting to the demise of a bit of material. The gesture doesn't remove THE KORAN from existence .. it's just the sentiment they (the burners) want to convey that's as important as you want to make it. So long as they burn their own copies and don't try to burn those that belong to others, then go ahead I say.
no fences

User avatar
JOZeldenrust
Posts: 557
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:49 am
Contact:

Re: Light 'em up, folks! Time to burn those Korans.

Post by JOZeldenrust » Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:09 pm

Charlou wrote:
JOZeldenrust wrote:The Koran is a book. You just don't burn books unless you're very, very cold. Leave the barbarism to the barbarians.
That's your value judgement. Are you going to send out a fatwa on any Koran burners based on that?

I think burning the Koran is symbolic .. I'd burn one and a copy of the babble too if I thought it would achieve anything momentous. I agree with coito's position about it .. it's a fucking token gesture amounting to the demise of a bit of material. The gesture doesn't remove THE KORAN from existence .. it's just the sentiment they (the burners) want to convey that's as important as you want to make it. So long as they burn their own copies and don't try to burn those that belong to others, then go ahead I say.
I thought my next post made it quite clear that I support the right to burn the Koran, or the Bible, or a copy of A Brief History of Time, and I will defend that right in both word and act. I don't support actually excersizing that right to make a socio-political statement, and I will oppose such an act by speaking up against it.

If you're going to attack my position, at least make sure it is my position, and not some strawman version of it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests