Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'

[sandinista]

This seems pretty disturbing, all this talk about how awful the taliban is, look what apparently goes on in US prison camps. Ugly.

At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -rape.html

[Pappa]

That is awful.

[Thinking Aloud]

While the news is from last year it doesn't reduce the horrific nature of that kind of abuse.

All it proves is that when people are given power in any situation, some will abuse it.

In the case of many extremists, that power comes from above, and the abuse is mandated by (or inferred from) holy scripture and enshrined in law; in the prison camp case, it's against the law, it's not officially condoned or prescribed, and the perpetrators face investigation/punishment.

[Pappa]

All it proves is that when people are given power in any situation, some will abuse it.

It's unfortunate that it also seems in the right circumstances, when humans are appropriately dehumanised, many people will behave in these kinds of ways.

I also find it disturbing that the Obama administration has stated "appropriate action has been taken" against these people. Presumably, in military tribunals held in secret with no public accountability?

[sandinista]

While the news is from last year it doesn't reduce the horrific nature of that kind of abuse.

All it proves is that when people are given power in any situation, some will abuse it.

In the case of many extremists, that power comes from above, and the abuse is mandated by (or inferred from) holy scripture and enshrined in law; in the prison camp case, it's against the law, it's not officially condoned or prescribed, and the perpetrators face investigation/punishment.

I do understand what you're saying, but I don't trust any government; especially ones who have operated covertly throughout recent history; enough to believe that this kind of behavior is not condoned or prescribed. I think the key word you used is "officially". "officially" means little to me. The same with the "law". The law is easily bypassed for groups who operate outside the law, especially in war zones. Same with punishment, I'm not sure the correct people get punished.

The news is also from today's paper btw.

[JimC]

While the news is from last year it doesn't reduce the horrific nature of that kind of abuse.

All it proves is that when people are given power in any situation, some will abuse it.

In the case of many extremists, that power comes from above, and the abuse is mandated by (or inferred from) holy scripture and enshrined in law; in the prison camp case, it's against the law, it's not officially condoned or prescribed, and the perpetrators face investigation/punishment.

Agreed, but, if true, it is a shocking inditement of the officers in charge, and must generate suspicion that no one cared too much what happened to muslim insurgents...

[Trolldor]

The photos don't show whether or not they shouted surprise though.

[Thinking Aloud]

While the news is from last year it doesn't reduce the horrific nature of that kind of abuse.

All it proves is that when people are given power in any situation, some will abuse it.

In the case of many extremists, that power comes from above, and the abuse is mandated by (or inferred from) holy scripture and enshrined in law; in the prison camp case, it's against the law, it's not officially condoned or prescribed, and the perpetrators face investigation/punishment.

I do understand what you're saying, but I don't trust any government; especially ones who have operated covertly throughout recent history; enough to believe that this kind of behavior is not condoned or prescribed. I think the key word you used is "officially". "officially" means little to me. The same with the "law". The law is easily bypassed for groups who operate outside the law, especially in war zones. Same with punishment, I'm not sure the correct people get punished.

Yes - obviously I'm not in a position to comment on that either way, but I can take a little bit of comfort in the fact that we (hopefully covering the majority of "western" observers) find the actions of these individuals unpleasant, enough so to make a noise about it. Compare perhaps to the apparent attitude of other societies who seem reluctant to speak up against abuses rife in their cultures. To me, societal acceptance of abuse is the greater of the two evils.

The news is also from today's paper btw.

Fair enough!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This seems pretty disturbing, all this talk about how awful the taliban is, look what apparently goes on in US prison camps. Ugly.

At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -rape.html

Trolling up fifteen month old news articles? You running out of current things to whinge about?

[Thinking Aloud]

This seems pretty disturbing, all this talk about how awful the taliban is, look what apparently goes on in US prison camps. Ugly.

At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -rape.html

Trolling up fifteen month old news articles? You running out of current things to whinge about?

I'd not read it before.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

This seems pretty disturbing, all this talk about how awful the taliban is, look what apparently goes on in US prison camps. Ugly.

At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -rape.html

Trolling up fifteen month old news articles? You running out of current things to whinge about?

I'd not read it before.

News to you, fine. But not news. And how many of those charges actually panned out?

[mistermack]

News to you, fine. But not news. And how many of those charges actually panned out?

That's a classic, even for Gawdzilla. How many do you expect, when the bandits are their own judges and jurys, as well as running the investigation?
A bare minimum token number of course! You seem to see only what you want to see.
.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

News to you, fine. But not news. And how many of those charges actually panned out?

That's a classic, even for Gawdzilla. How many do you expect, when the bandits are their own judges and jurys, as well as running the investigation?
A bare minimum token number of course! You seem to see only what you want to see.
.

Actually, I've seen far worse. There just wasn't anybody to file a complaint afterwards.

[sandinista]

This seems pretty disturbing, all this talk about how awful the taliban is, look what apparently goes on in US prison camps. Ugly.

At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -rape.html

Trolling up fifteen month old news articles? You running out of current things to whinge about?

again, its from todays paper, and yes..."whinge" about rape, you're a piece of work aren't you. I'm sure you condone it.

[sandinista]

News to you, fine. But not news. And how many of those charges actually panned out?

That's a classic, even for Gawdzilla. How many do you expect, when the bandits are their own judges and jurys, as well as running the investigation?
A bare minimum token number of course! You seem to see only what you want to see.
.

Actually, I've seen far worse. There just wasn't anybody to file a complaint afterwards.

and then you go on to say "you've seen worse" like its some kind of pride thing for you. So, on the one hand you're saying it's old news and the charges never "panned out" (hinting that they were false) and then you go on to say worse things happen. Unfortunately, on the second part of that, I agree. Worse things are done by the military and people are never charged or held accountable, which is why this news story doesn't surprise me at all. It is sad and disgusting though, and certainly nothing to be proud of.